Just an Evo robot

The title is a quote from a regular poster, who perhaps did not mean it entirely seriously. But I have seen several posts that appear to make the following connections:If biological evolution is a fact, then- the bible can be disregarded- we do not have any spiritual (non-physical and non-mental) life- there is no life after death- there is no reason to live by ethical rules and standards.It seems to me that the logic here has holes big enough to drive a truck through. Would anyone care to defend any of the four consequences, or advise me if I've misunderstood?

Thread moved here from the Proposed New Topics forum.

Evolution is a fact. The Bible can be disregarded as a science or history text. But that is not what the Bible is for anyway. The Bible is a morallity play, a map showing the way to live with a Supreme being, your fellow Man and with yourself. When used as it was intended, it is very valuable. Unknown and untestable. Many of us believe that we do have a soul, others do not. But that has nothing to do with Evolution anyway. Unknown and untestable. Many of us believe in an afterlife, many don't. But that has nothing to do with Evolution anyway. I don't think anyone has made such a statement and if you want to make such an absurd assertion it would be nice if you could provide a link to it. But that has nothing to do with Evolution anyway. Evolution has nothing to say about morality or behaviour. It simply describes what DID happen.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

What jar said basically. I'm guessing your quoting from an atheist, however many christians believe in evolution (jar for instance).As an athiest i believe that the bible can be disregarded (not because of evolution mind, but because of my beliefs). The same goes for the next two points as well, but like i said this is because of my beliefs, not just because evolution occurs.The last is just a classic, evolution makes no attempt to set ethical rules and standards. In fact as far as i am concerned evolution is probably the cause (though not the reason) of most of ethics and morals at the moment, rather than a reason for there not being any. But thats just behaviour, not actual morality.Unseul

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Give a man a fire and he's warm for a day. Set a man on fire and he's warm for the rest of his life....Do unto others before they do unto you.

I think that both you and jar have it wrong.This guy isn't supporting those statements and they are more often stated by the most fundamental of literalists but relatively rarely by atheists.

I never thought he was supporting those statement, afterall he says that they have logical holes you could drive a truck through. I just find it hard to believe that even a Creationist could be so silly as to make the statement that there is no need to live by an ethical or moral standard, much less try to relate that to Evolution.If a Creationist or anyone else did make such a silly statement I would imagine most everyone whould jump all over it.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

FireBird Quite certainly since it has nothing to do with evolution as a fact. There is nothing in evolution to dispute these findings,however there are disciplines of science which pretty much rule this possibility out. Irrelevant to evolution as both a fact and its theory.Again there are disciplines where it is difficult to reconcile within the limits of scientific investigation the possibility of life after death.I have always wondered if the proper phrase should not be life after life since death is by definition the finality of life,. It matters not whether evolution is a fact or not there is no reason,per se,to live by such. You may choose to do so but there is no stricture upon your choices other than the order gained by this.You must live with the decisions you make upon your lifes course and the fact remains that few of us achieve all the choices that take us to where we planned our lives to be.Logic and human affairs are not totally compatible.

Those statements have nothing to do with evolution. Whether someone believes any of those statements to be true or false is their own decision, but they do not exclude or include evolution as a fact. Evolution is not a doctrine that teaches people how to live their lives or a method to disprove untestable claims of the supernatural. It is simply a theory that pulls together evidence about how organisms have changed since the beginning of life, and allows us to make predictions based on this evidence.

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- the bible can be disregarded

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Yes because if evolution is fact then this world has evolved by natural processes without the need of divine intervention. Therefore any story about a God,creator,supernatural,miracle story,theory is just in the imagination as it does not fit evolutionary naturalism. Moreover it means Genesis is nothing but a myth. So if Genesis is not true then neither is the Bible. Of course you can use it like a map or a moral guide. But definately not as an absolute authority or a story that fits the facts of reality.

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- we do not have any spiritual (non-physical and non-mental) life

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If evolution is natural processes only. Any supernatural thoughts and ideas about a soul & more than just matter are merely in the imagination. Of course we can never know if they really exist. But if evolution is fact then no creator made the earth. Some of you may have their own religion/belief that says in the beginning God made life evolve, but thats just your belief.

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- there is no life after death

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In an evolutionary framework no there is no afterlife. Man has no soul. And is not immortal. Again we can never be sure, but if biological evolution is true than the chances of no life after death are very high indeed.

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- there is no reason to live by ethical rules and standards.

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There is reason to live morally. Because man is now smart enough to know whats right and wrong. However their is no ethics. Ethics are absolutes and since their is noone who has the right to impose absolutes like a creator, to hand down these ethics we can only look for mans own opinion and truth. So whatever the majority decide becomes right and wrong. Whatever the goverment approves is moral. And so on.

I don't see how that follows.Even if evolution is largely fact (which it is), that doesn't mean folks don't get miserable when you take their things or hurt them. Therefore folks will generally create societies that prevent those things from happening as much as possible.Ethics is and always has been about practical solutions to the practical problem of getting people to act for the greater good and not just for their own pleasure. I don't see that that requires absolutes of any kind, except to convince those people who lack imagination.There's plenty of ethics in the world of evolution, though obviously the theory of evolution doesn't provide them. In terms of getting societies to work, you have to look at sociology.

I know you really believe this stuff Almeyda, but take it from me, I guaruntee you heard it all from a creationist YEC. Only a creationist would be so sensitive as to say that if evolution is true then the bible isn't. You see, you don't have to buy into it though, even if Genesis is wrong when you take it literally, then it's still a separate book. You see, there is a possibility of many explanations. It is only a YEC's insistance that evolution would make the bible wrong that would give you these views. If you want to believe that then you'll have to be a bit of a weak believer, basing your faith on a literal Genesis. You can however, not take creationism so seriously.I would have said the exact same thing as you about a year ago, but now I know that it is just a radical viewpoint, from the extremities of the YEC twilight zone. BUT even in a biological framework there is no afterlife. It's the same with evolution because evolution is also biology. We all know we die a biological death, but that's all evolution/biology says about it. It doesn't mean there is no life after death, it just means that we are also biological like animals, but surely you know that?

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I don't think anyone has made such a statement and if you want to make such an absurd assertion it would be nice if you could provide a link to it.

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Actually, this is a stance I have seen many Creationists make over the years, with the lastest one being almeyda, if I'm not mistaken.The basic (terribly flawed) premise is;Evolution = no God = unethical/immoral behavior

I know. I saw it in this thread. But I still find it amazing and would have been willing to argue that even a Creationist could not be so silly.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

I understand, truly I do.Making a mistake or holding a mistaken view is never a shameful thing; it's part of learning, personal growth, and of just being human.However, refusing to accept that you have made an error when it is clear that you have is shameful to me.I guess that is human, too.

Perhaps I should have made my own position clearer; hopefully that will improve with practice.Ned and Schrafinator understood the intention of my first post. I am trying to understand why some otherwise rational people put so much futile effort into discrediting the ToE, even to the extent of supporting spokespeople that have repeatedly been proven to be dishonest.Such a course of action is after all very difficult to reconcile with Christian behaviour, and it seems to me that there must be very strong emotional reasons for people to attempt it.