Summations Only

He's credible because you say so?? So, when it comes to accusations against people, there really has to be confirmation of that accusation beyond 'he said, she said'Where is it? It seems all this conspiracy stuff is based on someone that most people think is was a crack pot, but YOU proclaim is credible.

Where is the independent verification of his claims?

On page 22 of this issue of the Journal of the Illinois Historical Society, George stated, At that time Lincoln was hired as defense attorney and was influential in producing a key witness from Chicago who exposed Spink as a perjurer. This presumably was regarding the fall term court action of 1856, because if it wasn’t, he would be even more incorrect.George’s source was Charles Chiniquy’s autobiography, Fifty Years in the Church of Rome, as the paper clearly shows. As I stated in my book: Here Professor George managed to make possibly as many as three mistakes in one sentence. First of all, Fifty Years did not state that Lincoln was influential in producing this key witness from Chicago. The witness in question was Philomene Moffat and it was another man, Narcisse Terrien, who independently contacted her and asked her to go to Urbana to testify. Lincoln was not aware of her existence until she showed up at his hotel door. Secondly, according to Chiniquy, she didn’t publicly expose anyone as a perjurer, as she didn’t end up being a witness, because Spink withdrew his charges and no more testimony was given. It appears that only Abraham Lincoln, Charles Chiniquy and his other lawyers, along with those on Spink’s side of the suit, that knew of the perjury before the case ended. Thirdly, if she had testified, she would have exposed Lebel as a perjurer, not Spink.

It must also be said that Chinquy's account is still dubious to say the least. He claims that Phioomena Moffat went to Lebel, saying that she would expose Lebel as a perjuror. Lebel tried to buy her off but she refused. Lebel went to Spinks and insisted that he abandon the prosecution. All this rendered as (rather melodramatic) dialogue although Chinquy was clearly not present.

Of course in reality Lincoln persuaded the parties to agree to an out-of-court settlement and that was why the prosecution was withdrawn. But Chinquy does not mention even the existence of the agreement, let alone Lincoln's role in achieving it.

Faith writes:Who expects to be set upon by a pack of hyenas for merely stating your case?

Faith writes:The evidence will be in his book, you aren't going to get it here.

PaulK writes:In fairness, Percy, that is George's account of Chinquy's claims. The article may be found here (scanned pdf).

Chiniquy writes:Here is the simple but marvelous story, as told me by that great and good man, whom God had made the messenger of His mercies towards me: "As soon as Lebel had given his perjured testimony against you yesterday," said Mr. Lincoln, "one of the agents of the Chicago press telegraphed to some of the principal papers of Chicago: 'It is probable that Mr. Chiniquy will be condemned; for the testimony of the Rev. Mr Lebel seems to leave no doubt that he is guilty.' And the little Irish boys, to sell their papers, filled the streets with cries: 'Chiniquy will be hung! Chiniquy will be hung!' The Roman Catholics were so glad to hear that, that ten thousand extra copies have been sold. Among those who bought those papers was a friend of yours, called Terrien, who went to his wife and told her that you were to be condemned, and when the woman heard that, she said, 'It is too bad, for I know Mr. Chiniquy is not guilty.'"'How do you know that?' said the husband. She answered: 'I was there when the priest Lebel made the plot, and promised to give his sister two eighties of good land if she would swear a false oath and accuse him of a crime which that woman said he had not even thought of with her.'"'If it be so,' said Terrien, 'we cannot allow Mr. Chiniquy to be condemned. Come with me to Urbana.'"But that woman being quite unwell, said to her husband, 'You know well I cannot go; but Miss Philomene Moffat was with me then. She knows every particular of that wicked plot as well as I do. She is well: go and take her to Urbana. There is no doubt that her testimony will prevent the condemnation of Mr. Chiniquy. Narcisse Terrien started immediately: and when you were praying God to come to your help, He was sending your deliverer at the full speed of the railroad cars. Miss Moffat has just given me the details of that diabolical plot. I have advised her not to show herself before the Court is opened. I will, then, send for her, and when she will have given, under oath, before the Court, the details she has just given me, I pity Spink with his perjured priests. As I told you, I would not be surprised if they were lynched: for there is a terrible excitement in town among many people, who from the beginning suspect that the priests have perjured themselves to destroy you. Now your suit is gained, and, to-morrow, you will have the greatest triumph a man ever got over his confounded foes. But you are in need of rest as well as myself. Good bye." After thanking God for that marvelous deliverance, I went to bed and took the needed rest."

PaulK writes:Of course in reality Lincoln persuaded the parties to agree to an out-of-court settlement and that was why the prosecution was withdrawn. But Chinquy does not mention even the existence of the agreement, let alone Lincoln's role in achieving it.