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Member (Idle past 1434 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
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Author | Topic: Religion Decline in US | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Theodoric Member Posts: 9201 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: Member Rating: 3.2 |
The whole letter is very interesting. He vehemently disagrees with the philosopher he is writing to.
quote:The word God is the product of human weakness – Letters of Note Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness. If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?
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dwise1 Member Posts: 5952 Joined: Member Rating: 5.2
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One wonders how so many millions could have been persuaded to believe given that your opinion is certainly the most common. Ah, so it's up to a vote in your opinion. The religion with the most believers wins. Well then obviously Hinduism wins! Many more millions believers for thousands more years than Christianity's paltry numbers. And that's not even considering Buddhism with so many millions of followers throughout Southern and Eastern Asia for longer than Christianity has even existed. It's kind of like the old joke that we should all eat manure "because 100 million flies cannot be wrong." Obviously the validity or truth of an idea is not determined by the number of adherents, so that is an invalid argument. But, like too many other Christian apologists, that is the false argument that you are making. You have made your cow plop so you must lie in it.
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Phat Member Posts: 18348 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0
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That letter is so good, im going to post it in full:
quote: What jumps out at me is this phrase: As a man you claim, so to speak, a dispensation from causality otherwise accepted,... Can anyone shed any light on what that means?Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.~Stile
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ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Faith writes:
I'll point out again, since you keep forgetting, that for at least half of that two thousand years the prevailing view was Catholic. We know how you love to be inclusive when it suits you. And of course your totally made up opinion is far more trustworthy than two thousand years of believers' views.And our geese will blot out the sun.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1473 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
There were even some true Christians in the Catholic Church despite its aggressive pagan superstitiousness, but outside that institution there were in fact millions of true Christians, many of them hiding away in the mountains where nevertheless the RCC would pursue them and slaughter them from time to time. God always keeps a remnant of the true believers alive from generation to generation. Those outside the RCC sent out missionaries to teach the truth and they did eventually change the views of the people, who were ready for the Reformation when it came.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1473 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Of course I'm not tallying numbers of believers by vote but by what I know is the true doctrine.
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Theodoric Member Posts: 9201 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: Member Rating: 3.2 |
And no historical evidence again for your ramblings
Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness. If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?
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ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Faith writes:
But the Reformation came from inside the Catholic Church: Calvin, Knox, Luther, Tyndale, Wycliffe, Zwingli, etc. were all Catholic priests, weren't they? Those outside the RCC sent out missionaries to teach the truth and they did eventually change the views of the people, who were ready for the Reformation when it came.And our geese will blot out the sun.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1473 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
But the Reformation came from inside the Catholic Church: Calvin, Knox, Luther, Tyndale, Wycliffe, Zwingli, etc. were all Catholic priests, weren't they? Gosh, you don't say! What a surprise! The Hiding Dissidents recognized the work the Reformers were doing and the Reformers recognized the Dissidents as precursors of their work. The newly invented printing press helped get the word out to all segments of society. What does inside or out matter? All those who followed the Reformation had been inside the RCC too before they all came out. Golly Gosh, revelation upon revelation. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
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ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Faith writes:
So name those hiding dissidents. And explain why they are not the prominent names in the Reformation.
The Hiding Dissidents recognized the work the Reformers were doing and the Reformers recognized the Dissidents as precursors of their work. Faith writes:
What matters is that you claimed the reforms came from outside the Church and, as far as I can tell, that is false. What does inside or out matter?And our geese will blot out the sun.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1473 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
I didn't claim the Reformation came from outside the Church. They were all Catholic priests who became Protestants through their study of the Bible. But that is also how the dissidents originally became dissidents: by reading the Bible. The Waldensians lived high in the Alps, I don't think the Albigensians had a hiding place but I'm not sure, or the Bogomils or some other groups I'm probably forgetting. Oh the Lollards. And their doctrine wasn't perfect either but it was biblical and they all knew that the RCC was the Antichrist system. The Reformation cleaned up the doctrine and also recognized the papacy as the Antichrist system.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
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ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Faith writes:
InMessage 35 you said, "Those outside the RCC sent out missionaries to teach the truth and they did eventually change the views of the people, who were ready for the Reformation when it came." I didn't claim the Reformation came from outside the Church.And our geese will blot out the sun.
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dwise1 Member Posts: 5952 Joined: Member Rating: 5.2
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Of course I'm not tallying numbers of believers by vote ... Bullfrog! Stop dissembling! Your Message 25 was completely based on an idea being more truth because there have been more believers in that idea than in another.
... but by what I know is the true doctrine. And yet everything that you say and do proves that your doctrine is false. Refer to the Matthew 7:20 Test. Also the personal test in Galatians 5:22-23.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1473 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
No, you are wrong.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1473 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Yes, read what I wrote. The missionaries didn't bring the Reformation but they had a role in changing people's minds so they were ready for it.
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