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Author | Topic: Deflation-gate | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Percy Member Posts: 22504 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 4.9
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The NFL has filed its brief in the expedited appeal of Judge Berman's ruling overturning the NFL's four game suspension of Patriot quarterback Tom Brady for deflating footballs in last January's AFC championship game between the Patriots and the Colts.
The NFL requested, and the NFLPA agreed, an expedited appeal, and it will take place on Monday, February 1, 2016. If Berman's ruling is overturned, Brady would begin serving his four game suspension in his very next game. Most likely that won't be until next season, but it isn't inconceivable that it could be the Super Bowl, played just six days later. In requesting an expedited appeal the NFL knew it could affect the Super Bowl. It's like Goodell has it in for his own league. "How could I make my management of the league look as idiotic as possible?" Goodell asked himself, and evidently found an answer. The brief is 143 pages long - it will take me a while to work through it. --Percy
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Percy Member Posts: 22504 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 4.9
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Oft forgotten in the Deflategate controversy is that no direct evidence that the Patriots deflated footballs was ever found. Many have noted that there *was* evidence, and that though it was circumstantial, there's nothing wrong with circumstantial evidence.
But the circumstantial evidence of deflated footballs was evidence only in the same way that sea shells on mountain tops are evidence for a global flood: evidence only if you're a ninny and willing to ignore reams of other evidence and knowledge. Michael McCann, professor of sports law at UNH, conducted a three hour Deflategate course covering all aspects. It included the scientific aspects, covered by John Leonard, professor of engineering at MIT, Michael Briggs, professor of physics at UNH, and Martin Wosnik, professor of marine science also at UNH. The Boston Globe published a brief article about the course: At ‘Deflategate’ class, scientists let the air out of the NFL Roger Goodell is determined to punish Tom Brady for something that all the evidence says never happened. --Percy
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Percy Member Posts: 22504 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 4.9 |
--Percy
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Percy Member Posts: 22504 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 4.9
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The NFL recently revealed that they *have* been measuring the pressure of footballs at halftime of random games, just as they said they would, but that they will not be making the data public. Of course not.
The data up to this point wouldn't be very interesting, except for games on very hot days in the south, but now that we're in the fall season with dropping temperatures it would be nice to see the data from places like Green Bay, Minnesota and New England. With that data we would also witness the NFL's reaction as it gradually dawns on them that temperature really *does* affect the pressure of footballs. --Percy
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Percy Member Posts: 22504 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 4.9 |
NFL reportedly checks PSI of Patriots’ footballs, reports a local paper. The pressures were checked before the game, at halftime, and after the game. I think the game time temperature was in the 40's dropping into upper 30's.
I watched the game and resumption of play after halftime was not held up, so the referees were more expeditious than those who measured the football pressures at halftime during the infamous Colts/Patriots AFC championship game last year that started deflategate. The NFL will not be making football PSI information public. Hopefully it will become public somehow, and if/when it does I expect we will find that NFL procedures for measuring football pressures are flawed. I won't speculate at the specifics of how they are flawed, but given that NFL is ignoring that footballs given different amounts of time to warm or cool will change pressures by different amounts, we can be fairly sure they're flawed. Brady's legal team should subpoena the results for the March hearing. --Percy
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Percy Member Posts: 22504 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 4.9 |
Scott Zolak, a local TV/radio sports broadcaster and former Patriot backup quarterback, tweeted that the referees for Saturday's Patriots/Chiefs game forgot the kicking balls and pressure gauges back at their hotel. They needed an escort to retrieve them from the hotel in time. I'm not a Twitter user and haven't seen the tweet. Anyone use Twitter?
As far as I know no one else has reported or confirmed this, but local talk radio had a good laugh. --Percy
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xongsmith Member Posts: 2587 From: massachusetts US Joined: Member Rating: 6.4 |
Well, now I wonder about Mile-High Stadium....
What should be the right course of action? Baseball already gives creedence to the notion that Coors Field aids homers. Hmm - should the legal inflation be adjusted downwards for the Denver game??? Edited by xongsmith, : be- xongsmith, 5.7d
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Percy Member Posts: 22504 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 4.9 |
According to the Boston Globe, the NFL may release football PSI data between the Sunday championship games and the Super Bowl.
Whenever they release the data, they should also reveal more details about the process. We still don't know if their new process reflects an understanding that footballs take time to reach ambient temperature. --Percy
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Percy Member Posts: 22504 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 4.9 |
The gauges measure the pressure above atmospheric pressure, so adjustment for high altitude shouldn't be necessary. The greater travel distance of baseballs and footballs in high altitude *is* because of lower atmospheric pressure, but the effect is due to the accompanying reduced air resistance.
--Percy
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Blue Jay Member (Idle past 2727 days) Posts: 2843 From: You couldn't pronounce it with your mouthparts Joined:
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The demand for precision has gotten a bit out of hand, I think. Back in 2008, when I first joined the EvC community, I was caught up in the idea that there had to be purity in sports, and that it was an unfair assessment of an athlete's or a team's performance if something other than their athletic ability (equipment, environment, etc) impacted their success.
But now, several years later, with all the instant-replay and the the concussions and the controversies about things I didn't even know mattered (like PSI), I've kind of gotten sick of hearing about all the underhanded ways people have come up with to get an edge in a competition. Not to drag this too much into politics, but this goes back to the fundamental question of how to balance free-market vs regulation. Allowing some experimentation with the parameters of the game leads to innovations (that's how American football got the forward pass, the two-point conversion, etc); but too much "innovation" cheapens the experience for the players and the spectators. A sport that has a strong following and a rather long history, like American football, is bound to accumulate regulations over the years, but you have to wonder whether the regulations and concomitant controversies will eventually become so stifling that the game loses its appeal.-Blue Jay, Ph.D.* *Yeah, it's real Darwin loves you.
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xongsmith Member Posts: 2587 From: massachusetts US Joined: Member Rating: 6.4 |
Blue Jay weighs in (an excerpt):
A sport that has a strong following and a rather long history, like American football, is bound to accumulate regulations over the years, but you have to wonder whether the regulations and concomitant controversies will eventually become so stifling that the game loses its appeal. There is a certain part of me that fervently hopes so....- xongsmith, 5.7d
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NoNukes Inactive Member |
The demand for precision has gotten a bit out of hand, I think. The sole reason for precision is to catch tampering. The actual pressure is allowed to vary by a reasonably wide amount, and in actual game play the pressure is going to vary by a substantial amount due to temperature conditions on the field. Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given. Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King If there are no stupid questions, then what kind of questions do stupid people ask? Do they get smart just in time to ask questions? Scott Adams
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Blue Jay Member (Idle past 2727 days) Posts: 2843 From: You couldn't pronounce it with your mouthparts Joined: |
Hi, Xongsmith.
xongsmith writes: Blue Jay writes: A sport that has a strong following and a rather long history, like American football, is bound to accumulate regulations over the years, but you have to wonder whether the regulations and concomitant controversies will eventually become so stifling that the game loses its appeal. There is a certain part of me that fervently hopes so.... My secret hope is that, sometime in the near future, the game will be played by non-sentient, humanoid robots. That way I can still watch the game I love without feeling guilty about the "old boys' club" politics, the dark side of fame and fortune, and all the severe medical ramifications of the sport.-Blue Jay, Ph.D.* *Yeah, it's real Darwin loves you.
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Blue Jay Member (Idle past 2727 days) Posts: 2843 From: You couldn't pronounce it with your mouthparts Joined: |
Hi, NoNukes.
Blue Jay writes: The sole reason for precision is to catch tampering. The actual pressure is allowed to vary by a reasonably wide amount, and in actual game play the pressure is going to vary by a substantial amount due to temperature conditions on the field. I was thinking more broadly than just air pressure. It just amazes me how many ways there are to "cheat" at a sport. If you peeked at the old thread I linked to, back then I was confused about why performance-enhancing drugs are considered cheating, but many types of performance-enhancing equipment aren't. Now, it feels like people have gone too far down the road I was advocating in that previous thread. "Deflate-gate" seems to be part of a pattern of people becoming more concerned with precisely monitoring and regulating every aspect of the game, including not only the players' behavior, but also environmental variables that we can't reasonably expect to be meaningfully controlled anyway.-Blue Jay, Ph.D.* *Yeah, it's real Darwin loves you.
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NoNukes Inactive Member |
Deflate-gate" seems to be part of a pattern of people becoming more concerned with precisely monitoring and regulating every aspect of the game, including not only the players' behavior, but also environmental variables that we can't reasonably expect to be meaningfully controlled anyway. Prior to the current set of rules, the NFL kept very strict control of the footballs, and in fact provided the balls at game day. The current rules are a liberalization in which the teams are allowed to handle the balls, rough their surfaces up a bit and get them ready for the game. The only concession is that the balls have to be inspected prior to game time and are not to be tampered with after that point. In my opinion, that does not seem to match what you are saying about environmental variables, so somewhere I am missing the point you are trying to make. Perhaps the current rule is silly, but I don't see any trend of the rules getting sillier. Instead it looks like we are being exposed to a rule that we never paid attention to before. Regarding performance enhancing drugs, to the extent that they are harmful to the athletes, I think the only prudent action for a sports league to take (from a financial/legal liability standpoint) is to ban them and to stay as far away from encouraging their use as possible. But maybe that's a lawyer's view. Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given. Edited by NoNukes, : clarify performance enhancing drug statement Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King If there are no stupid questions, then what kind of questions do stupid people ask? Do they get smart just in time to ask questions? Scott Adams
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