Wyatt's Museum and the shape of Noah's Ark

You have contradicted yourself twice in that post with your faulty logic and ignorance of what works and what doesn't. First you say it is better bow to the wind then you turn tail and run and then you say that drag is good. The best drag system is the drogue 'chute. The anchors are not only bad for drag they are bad for weight placement and bad for structural design.They are also a totally unnecessary embellishment, being thought up to explain (post hoc ergo proctor hoc) the existence of a bunch of stone relics.

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we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand RebelAAmerican.Zen[Deist
{{{Buddha walks off laughing with joy}}}

Do you really think that the water in a wave moves with the wave? micro electricity current is totally different from your pumping needs as described. You have too many systems working at cross purposes for any of them to work.Enjoy your fantasy land.

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we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand RebelAAmerican.Zen[Deist
{{{Buddha walks off laughing with joy}}}

Repeat the question hoping for an answer ...: Do you?The japanese bouys also do not have massive ventilation from inside them and have very small electrical needs. The energy is there for little work to be done, the energy is not there to do the massive work your system needs. I never said that there was no energy, just insufficient.In a submarine you have the opportunity to move from a high wind and rough wave environment capable of causing damage and sea-sickness to one of stable motion - an obvious move for comfort and control.A system that would try to tie a floating boat to such a level would add stress to tear the boat apart.Try some reality checks.

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we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand RebelAAmerican.Zen[Deist
{{{Buddha walks off laughing with joy}}}

no. The wind pressure is pushing on the mass of water and shifting the mass downwind. Each particle of water moves very little, except during breaking waves and from spindrift. Over long enough fetch you can get wind induced current, and while it is slower than the waves, it would add to the pileup aspects. Why is there a wake behind surfers? Because the water is not moving with the wave. On a world wide flood you would have unrestricted fetch and there would be current moving the ark no matter how deep the rocks hung.Your moon pool concept is compromised by ventilation needs for the animals no matter how you cut it. To have ventilation you have no pressure, to have pressure you have no ventilation. One OR the other, but not both.To have enough energy to pump water over the sides it must let in more water than it pumps out. Conservation of energy rules it out. It won't work well enough to get a net positive result.

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we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand RebelAAmerican.Zen[Deist
{{{Buddha walks off laughing with joy}}}

for some reason I think more and more of the fantastic metal steam driven spider mechanism portrayed in the Wild Wild West movie than a boat. It just gets more uncredible.Don't forget that the waters from the deep (hydrolplates? not shown) get turned off after the initial deposit 40 day/night period, and the mixing of waters and fetch and current and wind are unhindered by any such flows, however fantastical you want to make them.{{edited to remove picture}}[This message has been edited RAZD, 05-03-2004]

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we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand RebelAAmerican.Zen[Deist
{{{Buddha walks off laughing with joy}}}

Your willingness to cling to an extremely farfetched concept (or three) is truly amazing to watch. You seem to have made a major personal investment in these ideas, regardless of how unreasonable they may be.You could also claim that the ark was kept in a bubble of safety, that it was regularly flushed and watered by a perfectly designed wave and pumped by a mini-waterspout.It is no less fantastic than what you keep repeating, and it doesn't require fantastic appurtenances and contrivances.I think you desperately want the stones to be real anchors, so you will take anything no matter how ridiculous as long as it requires the stones to be involved.That is not science.

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we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand RebelAAmerican.Zen[Deist
{{{Buddha walks off laughing with joy}}}

Or it has something to do with fish being alive, possessing energy the expend on propulsion systems and senses to orient themselves in the flow, know how to use a back eddy, and are there on purpose (food), not where they sleep ... possibly ...The problem with the dangling stones is that the direction of drag they exert is only along the rope, ie - perpendicular to line of force of the wind and wave. Ever watch a boat at anchor surge back and forth? That is with scope on the anchor rode, try it with a vertical rope. By the time the stone's drag force comes into effect the boat is broached and rolling. Throw in the forward movement of the ark over the stones as it comes off the top of a wave before running into the trough and you now have the stones pulling in the same direction as the next wave\wind, bow stops, stern keeps going = broach city at every wave.Additionally, the stones being much denser than the ark likely have less resistance to movement than the hull, so they will continue to hang nearly straight down as the bow is driven off the desired alignment and unable to stop it once the broaching starts.Whatever you think is accomplished by the stones in terms of boat trim and balance can be accomplished by location of the load inside, therefore there is no benefit to the stones for trim or balance. This is also a better way to handle it because you can change it when you need to. The stones are in an unreachable location - this is something sailors avoid when life depends on it.Inescapable conclusion: stones hung from ropes are a very bad idea.

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we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand RebelAAmerican.Zen[Deist
{{{Buddha walks off laughing with joy}}}

wrongagain.what did the sailors of old use in storm conditions? consider this a homework assignment before coming back with more silliness.

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we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand RebelAAmerican.Zen[Deist
{{{Buddha walks off laughing with joy}}}

I told you to do some homework, and sadly you haven't. Ignorance is not cured by navel gazing but by learning. You have no idea what and how the sailors of old worked in storms to minimize damage do you? You have no idea how waves behave do you? Finally you have no idea about the stresses of boats in waves do you? Go to:ErrorOn this site you will see various wave motions. Look at two things (you will need to have animations on to see these, and I hope they show okay here): (1) the first animation from the site: sound waves in the tube and the particles bouncing back and forth -- this is what the surface of the water movement will be like - particularly notice the compression and decompression aspects. Water being incompressible means the waves push up and down with these parts of the wave, so you add up and down to back and forth. Slow motion at the peaks fast motion at the troughs -- different parts of the boat will be experiencing different parts of the wave at the same time. Do you think sea-sickness is caused by looking? Now, try not to think of an elephant with the hurls ... (thas ugly).Now look at: (2) the third animation from the site: water waves and follow the blue dots -- the lower one is where your anchor stones are. As I said the ark would come down the wave and shoot ahead of the stones the hit the next wave and turn sideways and roll with minimal resistance from the stones. Notice that a parachute just under the surface with the line set to match the parachute and boat to the wavelength (proper usage) and the boat is held bow forward no matter which part of the wave it is on.Because of the motion of the waves under the boat a heavliy laden boat is under more stress, look at that blue dot again and think of a boat that is first lifted by the middle on a wave peak then lifted by the ends in a wave trough, now take a coathanger in your hands and bend it back and forth ... try to match the wave motion ...And most definitely there is no way there were not big waves, because you are asking for both a way bigger storm AND way more geological movement than has ever been recorded on this earth. Those pictures of the fountains from the mid ocean ridges (ROFLOL btw -- those are from magma) would turn the basins in between into washing machines. AND the plate movements don't stop with the rain because you have to raise up all those mountains that were just leveled ...And one last point ... you don't ever have just one set of waves -- there are always cross-waves that cause additional peaks and such (the effects add up from all the different sources).Try your model in a washing machine, and enjoy the ride.

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we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand RebelAAmerican.Zen[Deist
{{{Buddha walks off laughing with joy}}}

If you look at the water wave animation you will see a point at which the water motion would be affected by shallow bottoms, the wave base slows down, wavelength decreases and the waves pile up until they break.

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we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand RebelAAmerican.Zen[Deist
{{{Buddha walks off laughing with joy}}}

Tell ya what whatever, provide a link to the design information on the japanese buoys so we can see exactly how they work (I'd love to see it).Having done a google on the state of wave motion devices and their less than stellar results, AND not finding anything on them, I'm not holding my breath.

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we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand RebelAAmerican.Zen[Deist
{{{Buddha walks off laughing with joy}}}

Thanks, that gave me enough info to find this website:
Yoshio Masuda - Oscillating Water Column (OWC) DeviceIf you click on the picture on the website you can see an animation -- click on the [>-->] button and then the [>>] button to see continuous play.A lot of work for a little result. Notice that if a wave reaches the top of the column that it would also force water through the hatches and the whole thing needs to be supported in relative stasis compared to the waves.There is a much simpler system, well within the technologies of the times that does not put a hole in the hull or take up excessive volume inside. All you need to do is take that parachute sea anchor (the kind that really works in the real world) and make it with slots like a cloth windmill so that it wants to spin, and use that to drive a waterwheel -- two birds with one stone. Takes up very little room inside, easier to maintain too, can have plenty of spares for when it breaks. No extra leak potential either. Probably a lot quieter (can you imagine those hatches banging all night long? Probably louder than the howling of all the seasick animals).Oh, yeah, it doesn't need those stones either.

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we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand RebelAAmerican.Zen[Deist
{{{Buddha walks off laughing with joy}}}

More to the point, how can you do any kind of credible material analysis of what a fossil was composed of before it fossilized, and parts of the original structure were replaced by minerals. And of course these were excavated under conrolled conditions so that we would know the age and stratum they were found in ... oh wait, it's Wyatt, the guy who ties big rocks on ropes to hang from cantelevered beams extending off one end of a boat to make it float better (see Message 58) The word BOGUS comes to mind.Enjoy.

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Join the effort to unravel {AIDSHIV} with Team EvC! (click)

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