What is Christian music?

riVeRrat Imagine there's no heaven It's easy if you try
No hell below us, above us only sky'
Imagine all the people,living for todayThe point of the verse is that the preoccupation of a heaven that is not there and fear of a hell that does not exist is an impediment to people dealing with the human problems of the world.In point of fact no problems exist but for those that human beings cause themselves through clinging to notions of heaven or hell and the mistrust of those who do not believe as they do.This message has been edited by sidelined, 10-27-2004 07:51 AM

Well that really doesn't make much sense does it?Your definition of his words implies if there is no heaven or hell, that there would be no evil in the world. I don't think thats what he meant.I think the point of his verse was to live for today, to be good to each other as if the world and our existance depended on it( and it does). He knew that evil cannot exist without good, and vs versa. So imagine that we just were robots, living for today.His desire was to see all good in the world, and the fustration in his words is very apparent to me. I share in his fustration. To me he was fustrated at man, and blaming it on God to a point.But given the human nature, do you really think that if there was no heaven, no hell that we would all get along and there would be no evil? You think we could rely on our flesh alone?

riVeRrat It would be a beginning.Being as there,in all likelihood, is no heaven or hell then eliminating the need to defend ones stolid, unyielding belief system against those who would demand that their god and heaven and hell concepts are the true ones and [i]you[i/] are going to hell in a handbasket{perhaps even by the hand of those who disagree with you}then fighting for illusions of reward or punishment for disobedience would probably not have the death grip that they do in many parts of the world.

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[W]hen people thought the Earth was flat, they were wrong. When people thought the Earth was spherical they were wrong. But if you think that thinking the Earth is spherical is just as wrong as thinking the Earth is flat, then your view is wronger than both of them put together

Yes.

I have to agree with sidelined on this one. "Imagine" is all about removing the ways we define ourselves as 'special' among mankind - imagine there's no countries, no possessions, no religion...Imagine that you're not a wealthy American, going to the right church, with the right expensive sound system. You are just "human", as is everyone else. Suddenly the golden rule makes a lot more sense when everyone is equal.Why do wars start? Because humans find (often artificial) differences to focus on - and see someone else's wealth, or religion, or race, as worthy of conquest or destruction.

IMO that is wrong of people.
I think if we really followed Jesus's teaching that it would be more close to the euphoria that both John Lennon and I crave.If we truely followed Jesus, there would be no war, and we would rely on God. How many people now are really following Christ?

riVeRratBut many people such as myself have no pressing need,unlike yourself,to follow the teachings of chist or of gods for that matter.It is not simple denial it is no connection at all to the mentality prevalent among people who see their beliefs as necesary for all who hear or read it. LOL this is an interesting question. If you ask it of the board members here after giving them your definition of it how many will agree?What does it mean to really follow christ?

What gives you the right to enjoy one, and not a Christian?
can't we get together and listen to music that isn't saying anything wrong according to the bible and enjoy each others presence in a form a fellowship?

I agree with you. I do. Thats why I do my best to help others. I can't help it if I was born here in this situation. I have a family and kids. In order to help others I have to maintain my business, and family and house first before I can go out into the world.But it was through Christ that gave me an extra umph to do what I had already desired. To make a difference, and help others who are less fortunate. To join the human race as one.

I am really really ok with this, more than you know. I am from a place in life that you are, there-for I am no better than you because I believe in Christ.This is also why I took part in starting a charity that includes people who believe in God, and people who don't. There hasn't really ever been one like it before. It is non-denonmenational. It includes Pastors, and business owners.I do wish the world to be as one, whether you believe in Christ or not.

Huh? Where did you come up with this?I've never said a Christian shouldn't enjoy a concert.The concerts I attend also do not use the kind of unnecessary expense we were talking about earlier.What I did state is that it disgusts me when churches spend tithes and offerings on six-figure sound systems for their mini-malls that they call churches. There is so much better use for the money. Why can't you do those things without an expensive multimedia extravaganza? Coming together in voice and song is a powerful form of fellowship; but the louder the speakers, and the more frenetic the artificial visual stimulation, the less 'fellowship' you'll experience. Such artifice only serves to disconnect from self and others.

Throughout your comments in multiple threads in this forum, you are constantly labeling yourself as being blessed to be Christian, American, and in a wealthy country. This is the polar opposite of the jist of Imagine, which asks to remove religion, nationality, and wealth from your perpective. (I know you haven't said that you are trying to live your life by Imagine's creedo, but you seem to believe you are working towards its precepts).You don't seem to get the point of the song, since you write of being a Christian trying to join the human race as one. Simply in your statement you've labeled yourself as different - alienating some.The idea is to join the human race as one by simply accepting oneself as human, and not as labels X, Y, and Z.Nothing more than humanity is needed.

riVeRrat I am sorry riVeRrat but there seems to be a disconnect between these two statements of yours. Do you need christ or not for the world to get along?This message has been edited by sidelined, 10-30-2004 09:33 PM

pink sasquatch Aye,PS,that is the common bond,which is there regardless of politics,religion or opinion and whose outcome is without doubt the same across the board.This message has been edited by sidelined, 10-30-2004 09:58 PM

Since you put it that way, I kind of agree with you.Once a room gets so big though, you need a certain amount of sound to fill it, and the equipment is very expensive. Like I said, my churches estimates ranged from $60,000-$100,000. That was just for a basic sound system without lights or visuals. That is for a room of 750 people.On one hand, I appreciate the simple sound of worship with just a guitar and voices. It can be some of the most powerful forms of worship. We do that in our smaller services.On the other hand, as a church, we don't want to stagnate and not be of the times. Sometimes you need to modernize so that people can relate to it. That cost money. hopefully the investment in all that will repay itself over and over for years to come. Repay itself with respect to the Lord, and doing good works for him, through people that come to know Christ by the works of the church and its people.I can tell you, every single one of our leaders gasp at the cost of such a system, but realize its importance. Remember in the bible of how the temples were made from gold and the finest things?Of course it doesn't mean a thing unless you are doing everything else that Jesus wants us to do first.Having spoke to wisdom about this, whats better?
Spend $200,000 on a sound system once, and get millions in returns for years?
Or just go out and give $200,000 to the needy, and hope for the best for the next several years.