Why Doesn't God Explain In Person?

whoops... sorry, I thought I'd replied to this already.If you do something nice for me, I think that's of benefit for me. Thats like saying that if I do something of benefit for you, you get some benefit, isn't it?

Ah! I think I see the problem here: it's one of definition. I was considering altruism as a kind of selflessness that precluded any benefit to the altruist. I can now see there are all kinds of problems with that. For instance, how on earth do you measure whether there has been or will be any benefit to a person?
I don't think this definition of altruism is workable at all. I was using it because I believed others thought it was valid.You seem to be saying that actions that are intended to produce mutual benefit for active party and rescipient can be considered altruistic. This is what I'm talking about. I guess I think of that as enlightened self-interest, which I think is coherent. Indeed, I personally think that enlightened self-interest is the only explanation required when talking about why people do things to help others. Its only when people talk about truly selfless acts that I feel a bit uncomfortable. I just think its too hard to say with any assurance that someone gained no compensations through an act that helped others, so I don't think such "selfless altruism" is a really workable concept.This may sound a bit weird, but even in your grenade example, I don't think you can say with any confidence that the person was entirely selfless. Dead, yes - and someone who probably inspires a lot of gratitude - but selfless?I see most people, if not all people as fundamentally rational beings. I think the ability to reason is pretty amazing, so I think that however deluded or disturbed a person, their actions make some kind of sense. I think that a selflessly altruistic act wouldn't make sense, and is contrary to human intelligence.But maybe nobody believes in that kind of altruism, so I'm tilting at totally pointless windmills.This message has been edited by Tusko, 11-27-2004 10:27 AM

I hope I'm not sounding like too much of a freak! I don't think people who die for other people are bad or boring; I think they are pretty rare and great to have around Personally, I can't imagine the kind of rationalisation that would go on, if you were thinking "It would be better that I died than these other people". I don't think that I'd ever do it... but then again, maybe it isn't that weird. Maybe the think: I'm going to die anyway if no-one dives on it, so what have I got to lose?But thats not my point. My main point is that you are either someone who could rationalise that kind of sacrifice or not. I don't think you could choose to make the other, "wrong" decision after you had had your split second to think about it. I think I'm talking about free will, which I have a tough time understanding/believing in.And I don't think that has anything to do with the topic. Apologies.