carrot & stick

Ben,I went to the site you posted in the other thread but it appeared I had to install Real Player to listen to the talks, I didn't see any transcriptions. I dl'd Real Player and tried to make sense of all it said but decided against installing it. The last time I installed it as Real One it messed with my computer and I couldn't get rid of all of it. I've since re installed the OS for other reasons, but was very reluctant to put Real Player on my computer again. The topics sounded very interesting. I'm hoping transcripts exist as I don't trust Real Player it appears to be a adware spyware scam.lfen

Lam,That is the popular view of Buddhism but the teachings of the Buddha are more subtle than that. The Buddha denied a permanent self. One fairly common analogy to reincarnation was lighting a candle at the beginning of the night. When the candle is about gone using it's flame to light another candle. The question is then asked is the second candle's flame the same flame as the first candles flame?I think of greater significance in Buddhism is the teaching that only that which was never born never dies. The awakening of the Buddha speaks of is an awakening to the unborn and hence deathless.lfen

Ben,I think this is a very significant observation and not only for religion but to explain important aspects of human psychology.It also leads me to speculate on the brain state after the dissolution of the sense of self. The Hindu's speak of bliss but it's very clear they are not speaking of pleasure nor is it the anticipatory reward of dopamine.lfen

Propietary formats. I don't know enough about all the different formats. I though mpg could be used by anyone but maybe not. I may decided to install Realplayer. It's not horrible but it was annoying to have it stick stuff all over my system. I use Firefox maybe it can contain it.I wanted to hear Damasio, I've gotten so much from his books.lfen

Propietary formats. I don't know enough about all the different formats. I though mpg could be used by anyone but maybe not. I may decided to install Realplayer. It's not horrible but it was annoying to have it stick stuff all over my system. I use Firefox maybe it can contain it.I wanted to hear Damasio, I've gotten so much from his books.lfen

I think it hinges on the definition of "life". I suspect that nondualism falls just outside this. It doesn't offer the prospect of eternal continuation of individual's life. It says that the individual is an illusion of separateness that arises for awhile and then subsides, however the consciousness that is aware of this individual is not the individual and was never born hence never dies. So awakening offers the opportunity for consciousness to dis identify with the organism and thus experience it's eternal nature.I can't tell if this would satisfy the OP or not.lfen

Popular religions, and Buddhism did give rise to a popular Buddhism for those who by circumstance couldn't follow the path to awakening, do depend on Carrot and Stick. Shinto may be an exception I don't recall what it teaches about after death though.This book: This ancedote, I don't offer it as data or evidence, is part of the author's story of his heart attack. The tug or ripple he talks about appears to be one of the over 70 shocks delivered to restart his heart. The book is not about his near death experience but about his recovery from the heart attack and his discovery that an extremely low fat diet was wrong for his genetic type as his body made more cholestral than it did when eating moderately low fat. He gives no indication that he has read Tibetan Buddhist literature yet his discription fits with the Tibetan teaching on the clear light.He was not dead at the time but his heart had stopped and his brain was in a crisis state. So this is not an ancedote of what happens after death, only what one person experience while dying.I do offer it as the account of an experience not a belief. And it gives a more accessible account of the non dual than the eastern materials often do. The experience may just be that and ends with the death of the brain. On the other hand I believe it may be possible that this experience was of what Tibetan's call primordial awareness.This state is the carrot of Buddhism. The stick is the desires that result in the continuation of individual life which creates suffering inevitably.lfenedited because I forgot I wasn't pasting but had copied the quoted text and there were a few typos needing correction.This message has been edited by lfen, 12-05-2004 09:07 PM

The BARDO THODOL inaccurately translated as the TIBETAN BOOK OF THE DEAD, is a document to guide the awareness of the deceased in the transitional state (bardo) after death. The Tibetans believe that the deceased consciousness has a choice to leave the wheel of karma and remain as the ground consciousness but if attachment to desires remain there will be rebirth in various realms. They believe that at death for a moment everyone has a glimse of their true nature, the clear light of the primordial consciousness. The dead are urged to enter the clear light.Here is a quote from Bernadette Robert's book THE EXPERIENCE OF NO SELF: I offer these as brief indications of what nonduality points to. They aren't explanations really but an attempt to point to that which language can't convey but which we can experience of ourself.lfen