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Author Topic:   carrot & stick
Phat
Member
Posts: 18350
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 3 of 39 (165331)
12-05-2004 11:29 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by ohnhai
12-05-2004 8:09 AM


Walk softly and carry a big Carrot
ohnhai writes:
Are there religions out there that don’t as a core concept offer some idea of life eternal?
Hello, ohnhai. Good question. Here is what Websters says:
religion \ri-li-jen\ n 1 : the service and worship of God or the supernatural 2 : devotion to a religious faith 3 : a personal set or institutionalized system of religious beliefs, attitudes, and practices 4 : a cause, principle, or belief held to with faith and ardor religionist n
Based on definition#4, there are many such beliefs as you describe.
would religion have had the power to control society in the way it has over human history?
Perhaps better put as: Would people have allowed their religion to control them were there no fear of death?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by ohnhai, posted 12-05-2004 8:09 AM ohnhai has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 11 by ohnhai, posted 12-05-2004 4:32 PM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18350
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 27 of 39 (165544)
12-06-2004 3:21 AM
Reply to: Message 11 by ohnhai
12-05-2004 4:32 PM


Re: Walk softly and carry a big Carrot
bencip19 writes:
The Dopaminergic Reward System and Religion--Summary:
Can religious belief be explained simply by the nature of dopamine receptors?... animals will want to keep the dopamine levels as high as possible.
How do Pavlovs pooches fit into this?
Smolinksy extends this to argue that, ultimately, this is where afterlife, martyrdom, etc. come from.
And it is why I have a problem with casinos. The anticipation of that payoff over rides all common sense. As far as my Christian faith goes, I focus more on the daily relationship with God and my need for Him rather than on any big payoff when the saints go marchin in.
MiketheWiz writes:
Only when consciousness is in place, are the purpose of systems, able to be made.
I seem to be a verb --
an evolutionary process --
an integral function of the universe,
and so are you.
-- Buckminster Fuller
ohnhai writes:
But also in the light of #4 things like support of sporting team qualifies as religion. If you look at all the symptoms it would be not too hard to agree. Most supporters have a strong faith in the future success of their team, even if they consistently lurk at the bottom of the lowest league.
Funny that you mention sports, ohnhai. Here in Denver, we have people who are such rabid Broncomaniacs that they have entire houases painted with team colors and often have a shrineroom in the home with nothing but Bronco memorabilia. They brave frigid elements to attend every home game, and the main conversation in their lives is the team and the scene surrounding it. Do they "worship" the Broncos? Lets study the definition:
Websters writes:
1worship \"wr-shp\ n [ME worshipe worthiness, respect, reverence paid to a divine being, fr. OE weorthscipe worthiness, respect, fr. weorth worthy, worth + -scipe -ship, suffix denoting quality or condition] 1 chiefly Brit : a person of importance used as a title for officials 2 : reverence toward a divine being or supernatural power; also : the expression of such reverence 3 : extravagant respect or admiration or devotion <~ of the dollar>
Perhaps the sports maniac is guilty of definition #3 at the worst.
ohnhai writes:
It would have been far more simple a question to answer if it has simply remained a question of fearing for your soul upon death, but as the religions gained power they became more powerful and held onto it because as well as fearing for their soul people began to fear the mechanisms, especially the punitive, of the very structures that were offering eternal salvation. The join us or die approach.
When we studied Western Civ in college, the European people were coerced into religion by a lot of peer pressure. They saw these great Cathedrals as common gathering places where anyone who wished to be accepted and respected would show up. There is a lot of social cohesion in religious gatherings that has nothing to do with God and everything to do with how we appear or wish to appear to each other.

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 Message 30 by Ben!, posted 12-07-2004 1:45 AM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18350
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 31 of 39 (165842)
12-07-2004 3:49 AM
Reply to: Message 30 by Ben!
12-07-2004 1:45 AM


Re: Walk softly and carry a big Carrot
Well, if the stimulus consisted of anticipation of a reward, and if ringing a bell produced as much stimulus as getting fed, would a sermon about eternal life elicit a dopamine response in a parishoner akin to actually getting raptured?

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 Message 30 by Ben!, posted 12-07-2004 1:45 AM Ben! has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 33 by contracycle, posted 01-04-2005 10:56 AM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18350
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 34 of 39 (173737)
01-04-2005 11:02 AM
Reply to: Message 33 by contracycle
01-04-2005 10:56 AM


Re: Walk softly and carry a big Carrot
Wow! Interesting....what do you think of cell phones and human interaction?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 33 by contracycle, posted 01-04-2005 10:56 AM contracycle has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 35 by contracycle, posted 01-04-2005 11:20 AM Phat has not replied

  
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