Well, I tried to watch LOTR.

The movie. I felt like I was trapped in a Fox News Production.It will be on again tonight but I don't know if there is any reason to try again.It may well be a problem related to watching it on tv, but I hate going to movie theaters, don't own a DVD player except for the one that came with my latest computer and I've never used, and my only tv is a 30 or so year old Magnavox 13" portable.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

Yup. Poorly done lousy effects. It had all the annoying characteristics that Fox includes in all their productions, swooping noises and all. It is why I have a hard time even watching a sports event on Fox. Even the World Series were sheer agony when broadcast by Fox.It may also relate to why I've never been able to play a video game. They simply grate on my nerves and make me horrendously uncomfortable.I found that the technical production was totally overdone. I don't doubt that great effort went into the production, I just think the product would have been improved by leaving all that stuff out.Peter Jackson was well rewarded for the effort he put into these films and I am glad so many enjoyed them. But I'm also very glad that I was watching it on tv where a click of the remote could get me to Citizen Kane. I doubt I could have sat through the experience, no, I know I would not have stayed through the movie if seen in a theater.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

If it is being shown on Fox, turn it off. But that goes for any movie they show. Suddenly it looks like there are many many more problems than just because you are seeing it on TV. Watching it the way you suggest, is similar to my insisting that I only read LOTR in the form of Reader's Digest excerpts that were heavily fire and water damaged... and then insisting I have the ability to judge its quality as literature.I don't know whether to be angry with you for acting like you had actually given LOTR a chance, when in fact you hobbled it unfairly, or to cry at the state of your media center. Let me ask this though, does your TV have color?I would also wonder if sounds that do not seem to be necessary, are necessary for objects or actions unseeable on a pan and scan broadcast filtered through a 13" screen?

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holmes
"...what a fool believes he sees, no wise man has the power to reason away.."(D. Bros)

Rather than mock you for your opinions, which you're good enough to be honest about, I thought I'd ask you some questions so that you might elucidate on them.Both my parents have graduate degrees that include stage costuming, and as an erstwhile medevial reenactor myself, I have somewhat of an eye for the autheticity of costume. I found the costumes very compelling, very authentic, and exactly along the lines i had imagined them from the book. Maybe you had a different mental picture, and I'd like to know in what ways you found the costuming deficient.For instance I found these guys:a lot better dressed than these guys:Why isn't Aragorn wearing pants?Now, that's comparing animation and live action, but if you want to delve into some crappy fantasy costuming, here's Conan: The Governor:I found the costumes in LOTR quite, well, succulent, if you will. The general trend in english-ethnic fantasy movies is to costume from the anglo-germanic angle; it was nice to see a fantasy movie tied together with celtic trappings (not just the costumes, but the music, too).

I am interested in his explanation as well. It seemed to me that regardless of whether it was a good movie or an appropriate adaptation, the costumes and scenery were beyond question.I cannot think of any fantasy film that matches LOTR in quality of costume or scenery.(edited in: and it only got better as the series went on. I thought Jackson's creation of the different "evil" races was brilliant and managed to make each one look individual and not pressed out of a singular orc and goblin cookie cutter. I think that also made the series unique among fantasy movies.)This message has been edited by holmes, 12-12-2004 02:25 PM

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holmes
"...what a fool believes he sees, no wise man has the power to reason away.."(D. Bros)

Leaving what out, exactly? The Balrog? The Nazgul riders on their evil wyverns? The ents? The hobbits? Aren't those all kind of important to the story?These were the best special effects I've ever seen, simply because so many of them were completely unnoticable. Did you know that Elija Wood is almost as tall as Ian McKellan?I certainly didn't see any effects that were gratuitous, and nothing would have improved the movie by being left out, as near as I can tell. "Swooping noises"? Examples?Is it possible that your TV is adding artifacts to the movie, and making "effects" and "noises" that aren't really there? Surely you have a friend with a better setup?

If I remember to put the transparency on and get the blue stripe at the top and the green at the bottom.(a test to determine the age and experience of the audience)

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

Heheheh... I get it but thankfully never had to experience that travesty first hand. But just to let you know when watching Fox you are supposed to use the red, white, and blue transparency. They claim it doesn't matter which way you put it in, but all other transparencies are pink compared to their's.

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holmes
"...what a fool believes he sees, no wise man has the power to reason away.."(D. Bros)

I didn't make it far enough to see the Balrog, the Ents, or the wyverns. I found the hobits way to thin but that was certainly not a defining issue. No, but then I don't know who either of those people are so that shouldn't be surprising. I assume they are in the movie. Well, one example was when the crowd first hid from the Black Riders. There were a buch of bugs and stuff that started crawling on the crowd for some unknown reason. Never did understand the purpose of that.I did miss meeting farmer Maggot and wished they had not left him out. I wonder if those of you who use video games or watch many movies don't simply take such things in without hearing them. Others have said the same thing relating to Fox when I mention all the strange and unusual noises on any Fox production from News (yeah, right) to sports. They just don't hear them.I did feel that the Black Riders missed the mark. In my vision, they should have looked fair but felt foul, if you know what I mean.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

Ah, like this one? I'm sure Fox would approve.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

I'm sorry, I should have been more clear. I'm referring to the actors that (so magnificently) played Frodo and Gandalf.Elija Wood is not a midget or a child; none of the hobbits are. Their diminutive stature was the result of special effects, but you'd never know it. It's not obvious? That the evil of the Nazgul brings evil, gross stuff out of the woodwork? That's not obvious too? It's to display how unnaturally evil the black riders are. They're not just bad people; they're evil beyond the normal world. Correcting another one of Tolkein's mistakes, if you ask me. Same with the Tom Bombadill ridiculousness. I don't recall them ever described that way in the books. No, I'm fairly observant when it comes to sound. (Perhaps "observant" isn't the right word - earservant, maybe?) It sounds like it's either your tv or your ears.I mean, I think Fox goes a little overboard with their graphic effects and the commensurate sounds that go with, but I don't remember any such nonsense in LOTR. Just the sounds of the stuff that was happening.I gotta ask, do you watch a lot of movies? Some of the comments you make are like a guy who goes to the theatre and afterwards is asked his opinion, and replies "it was ok, I guess, but who were all those guys up there in funny clothes?" In other words it seems like you lack a basic familiarity with a lot of the conventions of cinema.This message has been edited by crashfrog, 12-12-2004 04:32 PM

Maybe I'm too used to the clear distinction drawn in fantasy games, but I couldn't understand or see the difference between orcs, Uruk-hai, and goblins, or if there even was one.

OutFoxed by the french? Well that figures.By the way there was a reason for the bugs and things coming from the Black riders. It was a visual way to get across the frightening and sickening presence they had about them. I'm a little confused on why you pictured them looking okay but feeling wrong. They were supposed to be dead people... well living dead.I agree that the farmer got shorted in the movie as did Tom Bombadil. But those were minor elements in the overall plot, wouldn't you agree? This is not to say that there weren't other changes which were a little odd, including additions that were unnecessary. I just didn't find them too distracting.Even reading the books after the movie, it felt right... with the only exception being the very end, which I thought they did not handle as well as they could have.

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holmes
"...what a fool believes he sees, no wise man has the power to reason away.."(D. Bros)

Wow, I thought the difference between the three was very distinct (though less so between orcs and goblins). But actually I was trying to get at the difference between individual orcs, goblins, etc. That is to say it was possible to distinguish characters with their own style, they weren't all dressed the same nor acted the same. That wasn't true in the first movie, but in the next two it felt like the bad guys grew more distinct.A great example was that orc general with the mangled face that looked like fungus was growing all over it. He had an identity and so it wasn't just the good guys against faceless bad guys that all looked alike as they got mowed down.

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holmes
"...what a fool believes he sees, no wise man has the power to reason away.."(D. Bros)

Well, I assumed the size difference between the hobbits and big people was special effects. It never occurred to me it was anything else. I used to take my daughter and her friends to movies every once in a while. I think the last movie I went to as something I wanted to do was...I can't remember.Do I watch alot of movies? Not really. I cannot remember a single movie I've gone to I enjoyed since the great days of the drive-in. And I can't tell you a single title of any of the movies that played during the very memorable nights at the drive-in. But there are other tales I could tell...

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion