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Author Topic:   Belief...a choice?
lfen
Member (Idle past 4707 days)
Posts: 2189
From: Oregon
Joined: 06-24-2004


Message 6 of 113 (162652)
11-23-2004 12:26 PM
Reply to: Message 4 by LinearAq
11-23-2004 11:09 AM


Re: Religious Belief is different?
It's been decades since I read James THE VARIETIES OF RELIGIOUS EXPERIENCE. The main thing I took from that book is the title but it's a very good point. There is not a single kind of religious person or experience.
Belief seems to me to be a part of the phenomena of knowing and knowledge. This means it's very complex and as yet poorly understood.
Belief can range from looking up at clouds in the sky and telling someone "I believe it's going to rain soon" to believing that a supernatural event resulted in the imparting of X amount of truth to person Y and that anyone who disagrees will be subjected to Z consequences.
I think some people have sudden conversion experiences but there was a process leading to that moment even if it was largely nonconcious or subliminal. I think that for most people choosing a religious belief is more complex and takes longer than choosing say which item on a menu to get, or even what car to purchase. Though I expect there are people who put more effort into deciding on the car than the religious beliefs. i.e. I want to marry him/her and he/she expects me to convert or they won't marry me, o.k. I'll take the class and join the church.
lfen

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4 by LinearAq, posted 11-23-2004 11:09 AM LinearAq has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 46 by nator, posted 11-28-2004 9:26 AM lfen has replied

  
lfen
Member (Idle past 4707 days)
Posts: 2189
From: Oregon
Joined: 06-24-2004


Message 48 of 113 (163672)
11-28-2004 11:52 AM
Reply to: Message 46 by nator
11-28-2004 9:26 AM


Re: Religious Belief is different?
If we are talking about the majority of religious people as a whole, then I disagree that they choose at all.
I agree with you on that. I was thinking about people who for whatever reason find themselves in a position where they are questioning and attempting to choose a belief system for themselves. I think they are a minority but I've no idea what percentage.
lfen

This message is a reply to:
 Message 46 by nator, posted 11-28-2004 9:26 AM nator has not replied

  
lfen
Member (Idle past 4707 days)
Posts: 2189
From: Oregon
Joined: 06-24-2004


Message 111 of 113 (178980)
01-20-2005 3:43 PM
Reply to: Message 110 by Phat
01-20-2005 12:59 PM


Re: Back on Topic
"Imagine this butterfly, exactly as it is, but ugly instead of beautiful."
Ludwig Wittgenstein
Try eating your favorite food but this time as you eat it find it disgusting. Try tasting something you really can't stomach, for me it would be cod liver oil, and imagine it was delicious. I couldn't rationalize that Hagen Das Coffee ice cream tastes as nasty as cod liver oil, or cod liver oil as delicious as Hagen Das.
btw, I knew a mother who had to keep the cod liver oil locked up as her preschooler daughter so loved it she would drink from the bottle if she could get to it, and that raised a very real risk of vitamin A poisoning. So I imagine that the little girl found the oil delicious but I can't imagine how she could do that!
lfen

This message is a reply to:
 Message 110 by Phat, posted 01-20-2005 12:59 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 112 by Phat, posted 01-22-2005 6:38 AM lfen has replied

  
lfen
Member (Idle past 4707 days)
Posts: 2189
From: Oregon
Joined: 06-24-2004


Message 113 of 113 (179571)
01-22-2005 7:01 AM
Reply to: Message 112 by Phat
01-22-2005 6:38 AM


Re: Back on Topic
Do you mean literally or is this a parable?
It's not a parable. It's a thought experiment meant to demonstrate that we can't choose how we feel about our experience. We can't decide to experience something as ugly or beautiful and we can't change our experience of it at that level. For example, if it's not our free will, what is it that determines if we find a particular butterfly beautiful or ugly?
lfen

This message is a reply to:
 Message 112 by Phat, posted 01-22-2005 6:38 AM Phat has not replied

  
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