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Author | Topic: Lucy and Secular Humanism | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||
anthro4n6 Inactive Member |
Thanks, AdminAsgara, for such a quick response.... amazingly quick.
And thanks for the link and the comments
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AdminAsgara Administrator (Idle past 2333 days) Posts: 2073 From: The Universe Joined: |
We are all guilty of this at one time or another but deep linking to an image on another's website is NOT good netiquette. Linking directly to another's site wastes their bandwidth.
For now, I suggest that the use of a web image be saved to your own computer and an image hosting site such as ImageShack - Best place for all of your image hosting and image sharing needs be used to host the picture. Attribution always needs to be given to the original site the picture was found. When in doubt, contact the site for permission to use their image. This message has been edited by AdminAsgara, 01-23-2005 12:18 AM AdminAsgara Queen of the Universe Comments on moderation procedures (or wish to respond to admin messages)? - Go to:
http://asgarasworld.bravepages.com http://perditionsgate.bravepages.com
General discussion of moderation procedures Thread Reopen Requests Considerations of topic promotions from the "Proposed New Topics" forum Introducing the new "Boot Camp" forum Other useful links: Forum Guidelines, Style Guides for EvC and Assistance w/ Forum Formatting
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AdminAsgara Administrator (Idle past 2333 days) Posts: 2073 From: The Universe Joined: |
No problem Terri. I hope that now that you have found our little corner of the universe you will stick around and contribute. Your take on Lucy's anatomy would be welcome.
AdminAsgara Queen of the Universe Comments on moderation procedures (or wish to respond to admin messages)? - Go to:
http://asgarasworld.bravepages.com http://perditionsgate.bravepages.com
General discussion of moderation procedures Thread Reopen Requests Considerations of topic promotions from the "Proposed New Topics" forum Introducing the new "Boot Camp" forum Other useful links: Forum Guidelines, Style Guides for EvC and Assistance w/ Forum Formatting
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arachnophilia Member (Idle past 1375 days) Posts: 9069 From: god's waiting room Joined: |
Arachnophilia, please remove the image that draws bandwidth from my website. You may download the image from my site to your own computer and then upload it to your own server. Please then credit my website. But please be courteous by not using up my bandwidth... I pay for it! sorry about that. looks like the queen fixed it already.
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randman  Suspended Member (Idle past 4930 days) Posts: 6367 Joined: |
Tom, haven't read the whole thread, but evolutionists are loathe to give up the right to use false and misleading artistic renderings to convince the public to believe.
It's all about teaching the end conclusion, for them, so hey, if they fabricate some, they see it is as no big deal for the most part.
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AdminNosy Administrator Posts: 4754 From: Vancouver, BC, Canada Joined: |
Tom, haven't read the whole thread, but evolutionists are loathe to give up the right to use false and misleading artistic renderings to convince the public to believe. It's all about teaching the end conclusion, for them, so hey, if they fabricate some, they see it is as no big deal for the most part. Such accusations have to be very well backed up if made. You may start by describing exactly what is false and how. References to false material will be n eeded. You will do this or retract it or end up with a suspention.
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randman  Suspended Member (Idle past 4930 days) Posts: 6367 Joined: |
You really want me to track down false uses of images and post them?
How about the use of Haeckel's drawings on the thread you brought up the same issue, and I backed it up with specifics. That's one. Showing Lucy with excessively human-like hands, as mentioned in the OP, that's another. Showing Neanderthal as ape-like is another. Not all evolutionists do this anymore, thankfully, but it was done for awhile, and I suspect you can still find such false images. I will do a google search with faith that they will be there. When I was shown such false images of an ape-like creature, the internet was not around so we'll see. Yep, just typed in Neanderthal images, and up they came. Neanderthal images - Google Search Is this good enough? Those are 3 solid examples of evolutionists using images to mislead the public, imo. This link summarizes my feelings. We were all shown the ape to man transition, led to believe Neanderthal was ape-like, that Cro-Magnon was somehow slightly less than normal human, and that apes like Ramapithecus were genuinely more humanoid than they were. http://www.cryingvoice.com/Evolution/ApeMen1.html This message has been edited by randman, 06-15-2005 01:44 AM This message has been edited by randman, 06-15-2005 02:04 AM
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PaulK Member Posts: 17828 Joined: Member Rating: 2.6 |
quote: The first image is from a French page on ebusiness. The second is from an Italian company selling miniature figures (it is one of their figures, painted) The third is a cover to the magazine "Creepy" drawn by Frank Frazetta. So taken in context NONE of them is a solid example of evolutionists using images to mislead the public.
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randman  Suspended Member (Idle past 4930 days) Posts: 6367 Joined: |
PaulK, are you denying that evolutionists for a very long time presented Neanderthal as sub-human?
I remember textbooks in the 70s showing Neanderthals as ape-like creatures, as sub-human. If you are to be honest, you should admit the same. http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/homs/bvl07.jpg
http://www.cartage.org.lb/en/themes/Sciences/LifeScience/...{Shortened display form of URL, to restore page width to normal. - Adminnemooseus} This message has been edited by Adminnemooseus, 06-15-2005 04:47 PM
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PaulK Member Posts: 17828 Joined: Member Rating: 2.6 |
quote: Having read my post, you must know that I neither said nor implied any such thing . All I did was look at the images you referred to in context - and concluded that none of them in that context could be regarded as an attempt by evolutionists to decieve the public. Even though you touted all three as "solid" examples of that very thing. A point that you choose not to answer insted asking if I said something completely different. I furhter add that even if I concede the point it would not demonstrate that there was any attempt by evolutionists to decieve. Indeed who, if not the evolutionists, has been behind the shift to more human and less ape-like images of neandertals ? If you are ho9nest then how do you eplain the nature of your reply ?
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Andya Primanda Inactive Member |
Randman, it is true that in the past people had portayed Neanderthals as apelike. However, the trend nowadays is a human portrayal, like this, the reconstruction of the Gibraltar Neanderthal child:
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Dr Jack Member Posts: 3514 From: Immigrant in the land of Deutsch Joined: Member Rating: 9.2 |
What is worth noting is where the dividing line falls between derived data and subjective guesswork. You'll note that on both the more recent picture posted above and on the earlier "ape-like" reconstructions the nose is wide. Why? Because the shape of the nose can be derived from the bones. As can the shape of the skull and jaw, the body shape, the posture, the layout of the muscles and the likely movements of the body.
Unfortunately neither hair nor skin survive to give us those surface features on which we overly fixate. Were Neanderthals hairy or smooth skinned? Dark or pale? Did their eyes have the same range of colours as ours?
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Chiroptera Inactive Member |
Might I suggest that a paragraph explaining how to properly display images be put someplace easy-to-find? Maybe where the UBB code for displaying images is explained, unless someone can think of a more appropriate place. I'm just worried that I'm not going to remember "imageshack". It will also be handy for a regular place for this information in case someone decides there is a better way to do this.
Edited to add:Or Forum Guidelines would be a good place to put this, too! This message has been edited by Chiroptera, 15-Jun-2005 08:34 PM
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AdminNosy Administrator Posts: 4754 From: Vancouver, BC, Canada Joined: |
Randman, you gave 3 "solid" examples earlier. They now seem to be less than solid. Have you agreed that you errored there?
Now you hvae supplied two additional links. In what why do they support your accusations? Remember you are not accusing someone of error but of fraud.
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randman  Suspended Member (Idle past 4930 days) Posts: 6367 Joined: |
The examples I gave were true, but I did not check the images closely. But the images are evidence of the examples, and I think anyone who has followed this for a long time knows full well it has only been fairly recently that Neanderthal has been presented graphically as a normal human being.
Are you claiming that is not the case? I substituted some other links, but considering the internet is not where most of us were first presented this data, it's not the best source. I did note there was no link attached to the graphic of girl Neanderthal. I recently saw that same depiction on a site showing other, very different and fairly recent depictions of Neanderthal. So my examples of false use of images remain: Haeckel's drawings (still used today sometimes as shown here even on a link on another thread) Depicting Neanderthal as ape-like, often with the ape-to-man transition, implying Neanderthal was some sort of "missing link", which totally misrepresents the fact Neaderthals were just a tribe of people. And showing Lucy with excessively human-like hands, as mentioned in the OP. As far as claiming that is fraud, that's a stretch. False use, sure, but fraud is crime, and I don't know if you can make that case or not. Is it wrong? I think it is. Is it a crime? I suspect it probably is not and have obviously not made that claim, despite you trying to bait me with that insinuation.
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