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macaroniandcheese 
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Posts: 4258
Joined: 05-24-2004


Message 1 of 41 (198925)
04-13-2005 10:07 AM


gendered language
this is a short-lived little topic regarding the origin of gender in languages. i know it's a pain to bring this old topic back up, but it's interesting.
i emailed a professor at oxford since the internet and my myriad books (restricted to french) proved useless in uncovering where gendered words came from.
his answer? gender was assigned to onjects in latin and this held over after its usefulness had passed. words in derivitive romance languages do not reflect any specific idea of gencer as related to objects (books are not male, cars are not female) and seem to not in latin either. in fact, the same word may take different genders depending on tense. here's the actual email.
Your question is an excellent one, and one that I have asked myself often. But there just isn't a really satisfying answer beyond the fact that it's a matter of historical inheritance from Latin. In remote linguistic history, before Latin existed, and in its ancestor language, there was a semantically-based distinction between animate and inanimate (or 'neuter'). Later on, 'animate' acquired a distinction between male and female, again originally motivated by the 'sex' of the referent. But this system rapidly became 'grammaticalized' or 'lexicalized' (in the sense that the gender of a word is largely a matter of convention). In Latin - a free word order language - gender agreement between nouns and adjectives or pronouns may have helped to 'keep track' of the relations between words even if they were not adjacent to each other. But the more rigid word order of Romance makes this less advantageous. Romance languages could do without gender, but it's a matter of historical inheritance. Some, indeed, behave very strangely in this respect: in Romanian for example thousands of words are masculine in the singular but feminine in the plural! In some languages (e.g., Italian) differences of gender are also correlated with such things as 'size' (where, surprisingly, feminines are larger than masculines), and so forth. I could go on ad nauseam, but if you want to know
more let me know.
This message has been edited by brennakimi, 04-13-2005 09:08 AM

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macaroniandcheese 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3956 days)
Posts: 4258
Joined: 05-24-2004


Message 16 of 41 (200790)
04-20-2005 9:52 PM
Reply to: Message 2 by contracycle
04-13-2005 10:55 AM


they are referred to as masculine and feminine but do not reflect any kind of current gender role opinions. you're being stupid and simply stating the existence of different types of nouns. i am trying to find the reason they are like that.

This message is a reply to:
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macaroniandcheese 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3956 days)
Posts: 4258
Joined: 05-24-2004


Message 17 of 41 (200791)
04-20-2005 9:55 PM
Reply to: Message 8 by contracycle
04-18-2005 9:13 AM


hello. this is the question of why romance languages have gendered nouns. why? because latin is their root and latin had them. any outside information is irrelevant. he didn't say there weren't other languages that had similar thingummies, he just said french comes from latin.

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macaroniandcheese 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3956 days)
Posts: 4258
Joined: 05-24-2004


Message 20 of 41 (200934)
04-21-2005 12:53 PM
Reply to: Message 18 by contracycle
04-21-2005 5:51 AM


i need a paper copy of lexis nexis to smack you with.
or maybe just a monitor.
This message has been edited by brennakimi, 04-21-2005 11:54 AM

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macaroniandcheese 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3956 days)
Posts: 4258
Joined: 05-24-2004


Message 38 of 41 (202312)
04-25-2005 5:06 PM
Reply to: Message 31 by AdminJar
04-25-2005 10:24 AM


Re: you're being stupid
your argument is overprotective.
and you spelled "your" incorrectly.
<3

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macaroniandcheese 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3956 days)
Posts: 4258
Joined: 05-24-2004


Message 39 of 41 (202313)
04-25-2005 5:07 PM
Reply to: Message 37 by arachnophilia
04-25-2005 5:03 PM


Re: you're being stupid
shuttup you did it first, asshole.

This message is a reply to:
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