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Author Topic:   Free will, perfection and limits on god
PaulK
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Posts: 17828
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 217 of 248 (205034)
05-04-2005 6:38 PM
Reply to: Message 216 by QBert14000
05-04-2005 6:29 PM


Re: Still struggling
Photons that produce the sensations we associate with the colour green instead produce the sensation we associate with the colour red.

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 Message 216 by QBert14000, posted 05-04-2005 6:29 PM QBert14000 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 218 by QBert14000, posted 05-04-2005 8:01 PM PaulK has replied

  
PaulK
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Posts: 17828
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 219 of 248 (205143)
05-05-2005 2:12 AM
Reply to: Message 218 by QBert14000
05-04-2005 8:01 PM


Re: Still struggling
Differently from us. My point is that there is no "correct" result.

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 Message 218 by QBert14000, posted 05-04-2005 8:01 PM QBert14000 has replied

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PaulK
Member
Posts: 17828
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 221 of 248 (205253)
05-05-2005 10:25 AM
Reply to: Message 220 by QBert14000
05-05-2005 10:12 AM


Re: Still struggling
I assumed not, but really there's no way to tell. And that in itself supports my point - because if it DID make a difference we should be able to tell (and in cases like colour-blindness we CAN tell that there is a difference).

This message is a reply to:
 Message 220 by QBert14000, posted 05-05-2005 10:12 AM QBert14000 has replied

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PaulK
Member
Posts: 17828
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 229 of 248 (205626)
05-06-2005 2:24 PM
Reply to: Message 228 by QBert14000
05-06-2005 2:17 PM


Re: Still struggling
quote:
So you're saying that if somebody senses "red" from something that is actually emiting "blue," but they call it blue because that's what they've been told that it is, then it's ok?
Isn't color-blindness an error?
No, and no.
You had it back right in Message 197.

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 Message 228 by QBert14000, posted 05-06-2005 2:17 PM QBert14000 has replied

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PaulK
Member
Posts: 17828
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 236 of 248 (205815)
05-07-2005 7:02 AM
Reply to: Message 232 by QBert14000
05-06-2005 6:57 PM


Re: Still struggling
Colour-blindness is simply being unable to distinguish between (usually) two colours. It's a disability compared to "normal" sight but it isn't "wrong" - simply a less fine ability to discriminate.

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PaulK
Member
Posts: 17828
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 242 of 248 (206125)
05-08-2005 2:12 PM
Reply to: Message 238 by QBert14000
05-07-2005 7:57 PM


Re: Still struggling
Loss of discrimination is not the same as an error. If you didn't have colour vision at all - like a dog - would your vision be wrong ? Or just restricted ?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 238 by QBert14000, posted 05-07-2005 7:57 PM QBert14000 has replied

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PaulK
Member
Posts: 17828
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 244 of 248 (206763)
05-10-2005 11:51 AM
Reply to: Message 243 by QBert14000
05-10-2005 11:21 AM


Re: Still struggling
For a comparison imagine that I have a length of wood that is exaclty 1.006 metres long. If I say that the length to the nearest metre is 1m that is not an error. If I say that the length to the nearest centimetre is 101cm then that is a finer measurement - and still not an error. If I say that the length to the nearest millimetre is 1008mm then that IS an error, despite bieng closer to the true length than either of the previos measurements.
A lack of colour vision is like a less-fine measurement - like measuring to the nearest centimetre instead of the nearest millimetre. It is a loss of discrimination rather than an error.
And it is false to say that errors are impossible. Optical illusions are a genuine example of an error in our sensory systems. However we can tell this because the error is not so completely systematic that it cannot be detected.

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 Message 243 by QBert14000, posted 05-10-2005 11:21 AM QBert14000 has replied

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 Message 245 by QBert14000, posted 05-23-2005 11:47 AM PaulK has replied

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17828
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 248 of 248 (210566)
05-23-2005 12:01 PM
Reply to: Message 245 by QBert14000
05-23-2005 11:47 AM


Re: Still struggling
I don't think that it is worth continuing this, whenthi :
quote:
Ok, so our interpretations can be errors
completely misses the point.
And this:
quote:
Aren't our senses sensing what is there, and isn't the error coming from our interpretation of that sensed information from our eyes?
looks like pointless nit-picking. Since the processing in question occurs BEFORE reaching the conscious mind it has to be considered part of the sensory system.

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 Message 245 by QBert14000, posted 05-23-2005 11:47 AM QBert14000 has not replied

  
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