evidence for conservative Christian influence on US government

This article is thoughtful and mentions that the pastor of this megachurch meets with Bush or Bush's advisors every monday.Dows the president of Planned Parenthood, NOW, or the Southern Poverty Law center meed with the president or his advisors every week?

No, that church is for real.That's not a spoof or satire story or site.TruthOut is certainly a liberal news outlet, and I do take what I read there with a grain of salt because it is pretty biased.That place is for real.The pastor of that crazy fundy church meets with Bush or Bush's advisors every Monday.

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Does it concern American EvC members that these groups give off a certain image to the rest of the world that Americans are a very strange breed?

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Yes, very much.

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Does it embarrass any of the American non-Christians that many casual observers may think that you are all as weird as these numbnuts?

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Yes, very much.

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Finally, and this may be a topic for a new thread, but what reaosns would you give for what I have heard others call a rise in the number of fundies in the USA.

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1) Poor education in general, and in science and critical thinking in specific, for a number of generations.2) Since education is state-run, poor, and therefore generally more religious, regions of the country have seen an increase in fundamentalist activity.3) Fear.

Any of you have any comments upon the article I cited?

Yeah, a mental asylum.It's a lot like that.And I do think that intellectual laziness and anti-intellectualism is a big part of the rise of fundamentalism.People in the US seem to think, these days more than ever, that somehow their opinion on every subject is valid, regardless of their complete lack of expertise.It's also just much easier to be told what to think and what to do.

Nobody wants to give the conservative viewpoint in this thread?

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That conservative Christian groups have some influence on the US government ? This is so obvious as to seem tautological. We concede that point.

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You might want to talk to monk about that concession.He has never admitted that the conservative Christian minority has significant influence on US government.

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Now if you're inviting us to see this influence as:

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a) disproportionate to the representation of such individuals in the electorate,

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Absolutely.

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or

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b) somehow uncharacteristic of or inimical to democracy,

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When such influence is, as you stated above, much more powerful than the moderate majority of the country, then yes, it is quite inimical to democracy.

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or

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c) entailing the advocacy of specific issues you find distasteful,

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I find the undue influence of a small, radical minority of Americans who wish to force the rest of us to follow their narrow philosophy by force of law to be distasteful, yes.

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these are separate topics, and you should be clear as to which you would like to discuss.

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Any and all would be fine.

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Keep in mind, it is an error to assume the "conservative Christian community" is a monolithic entity with identical views on all issues.

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Well, how does the "conservative Christian community" feel about:homosexuality and gay marriage
abortion/stem cell research
the death penalty
drug laws
the Iraq invasion
school prayerAre you seriously telling me that you believe that there is a large diversity of opinion among the "conservative Christian community" on these issues?Certainly there is a large diversity of opinion on these issues in the nation as a whole.

Monk, Bush did not meet even once with anyone from the NAACP for his entire first term as president of the United States.He spoke at the NAACP's convention when he was a candidate, but that was it. He declined the offer to speak at their 2004 convention.Yet, he or his staff has met with conservative evangelical christian leaders frequently during his terms in office. According to several mainstream media sources and the christian leaders themselves, they have contact once a week. In addition, he finds time to meet with other christian denominations'leaders as well.Among those conservative Christan leaders are crazy, radical people like Pat Robertson who believes that Florida hurricanes were caused by homosexuals and feminists and Ted Haggard who preaches that demons are everywhere and you can "catch" them by being near a sinful act, like homosexual sex, and that the US should be actively evangelizing for Christianity in Iraq.Bush finds all the time in the world to meet with these people, but not with the NAACP.Now, based upon this information of who the president and his staffers are meeting with, which group's concerns and goals do you think the president is focused on?

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Ok, I read the Time article and this guy Haggard is evidently one of numerous evangelicals who participated in a weekly teleconference with the White House during the campaign. I'm not sure if these meetings are an ongoing routine now that the campaign is over.

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So, why was it so important that Bush have a weekly teleconference with the leaders of the conservative evangelical Christian movement during the campaign if the evagelical Christian vote wasn't crucially important to Bush getting elected?Don't you think that some promises were made by Bush to those evagelical leaders during those phone conversations about what he would do for them if they helped him get elected by endorsing him to their congregations?Do you think that the concerns of the NAACP are as high on Bush's list as the concerns of the evangelical Christians whom he or his staff talks to every week?

Thanks for the correction, Faith.I should have used the term "conservative Christian" instead of "Evangelical" to include all relevant groups.Indeed, there are some groups that go by the names of what most people consider quite mainstream denominations but are, for all intents and purposes, very conservative, radical Christian.

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So is it any wonder why he avoided the 2004 NAACP convention? Would you fault Kerry for not appearing before the swift boat veterans? I wouldn?t, it would be political suicide.

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The NAACP is a legitimate, longstanding political organization with over a million members.The "Swiftboat Veterans" was a political smear group created by Karl Rove and a man who had held a seething hatred for John Kerry for decades.The fact that he was heckled should not have kept him from meeting with the NAACP leadership for his entire first term in office.In fact, the heckling should have prompted him to meet with the leadership to discuss their concerns.By contrast, he meets with conservative Christan leaders who are crazy, radical people like Pat Robertson who believes that Florida hurricanes were caused by homosexuals and feminists and Ted Haggard who preaches that demons are everywhere and you can "catch" them by being near a sinful act, like homosexual sex, and that the US should be actively evangelizing for Christianity in Iraq.Bush finds all the time in the world to meet with these people, but not with the NAACP.

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Schraf's contention is that only radical fundamentalist evangelicals have the ear of Bush.

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Nope.Big Business, especially Big Oil, also has his ear.Like his buddy, Ken Lay.

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There is a difference between killing the innocent in the name of convenience and punishing those convicted of heinous crimes.

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Is it important only that they be convicted, or that they be guilty?

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No rational person can be against all killing for "ANY reason."

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You mean like Buddhists?

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I agree, the heckling should have prompted Kerry to meet with veterans and discuss their concerns.

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Ha.Look, if you can't or won't address my points at least try to appear as though you are taking the converstaion seriously.This message has been edited by schrafinator, 06-01-2005 11:05 PM

Why don't we simply call the two groups "pro-legalized abortion" and "anti-legalized abortion"?