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Author Topic:   Christian Group has bank account removed due to "unacceptable views"
Modulous
Member
Posts: 7801
From: Manchester, UK
Joined: 05-01-2005


Message 126 of 291 (220621)
06-29-2005 4:07 AM


Another Mancunian joins in
My old local pub had a sign up which said that they would refuse service to anyone who was racist, homophobic, sexist or in some way intolerant to other patrons or peoples. However, it is the law of Britain that a business cannot refuse business based only on religious or racial grounds.
However, if your religion demands that you are vocally racist or homophobic, your crap out of luck. Your religion cannot protect you. If my religion meant that I was obliged to rant and rave about the evils of the black man, I would expect to not get served at my bar, and would probably expect to lose my job.
If true Christianity (as Faith would have has believe) means making the lives of your neighbours and enemies unpleasant (which is a funny a way of loving thy neighbour and loving thy enemy, but there you go), and difficult to live, then true Christians are going to have to learn to live in a society which basis much of its morality on 'freedom until your freedom encroaches the freedoms of others'.
The Co-Op is a bank which advertises itself as being banking with a clear conscience. A bank that doesn't invest in unethical companies or countries, fair trade and all that. It doesn't do things perfectly, but it does what it can.
The Co-Op is not discriminating on religious grounds. They still do business with most people who would consider themselves Christian. They simply refuse to do business with people whose 'religion' is actively intolerant. If an Islamic group was vocally discriminatory against the Jewish population (and applying pressure to charities not to accept money if Jews had raised it), the co-op would refuse to do business with them, likewise a neo-nazi group. Clearly to show religious discrimination it has to be shown this is down to the fact that Christian Voice is Christian, rather than about the views they espouse. If a secular organisation was doing the same and the co-op continued business...then we would have religious discrimination.
"It has come to the bank's attention that Christian Voice is engaged in discriminatory pronouncements based on the grounds of sexual orientation,"
"This public stance is incompatible with the position of the Co-operative Bank, which publicly supports diversity and dignity in all its forms for our staff, customers and other stakeholders."
Christian Voice says it now waits for the bank to bar other Christians and Muslims and Jews who share the same views. This isn't happening because it isn't about religion. It isn't about opinion. It's about what is said and done.
Didn't Christ advocate praying in secret, doing charity in secret, and generally being a Christian without fanfare or trumpet? Why do these people need to shout on the street corners? Surely, they have their reward (Matthew 6).
Interestingly, Christian Voice comes up tops for a google search on 'ignorant bigots'

Replies to this message:
 Message 127 by Faith, posted 06-29-2005 8:45 AM Modulous has replied
 Message 128 by mark24, posted 06-29-2005 10:00 AM Modulous has replied

  
Modulous
Member
Posts: 7801
From: Manchester, UK
Joined: 05-01-2005


Message 130 of 291 (220658)
06-29-2005 10:57 AM
Reply to: Message 127 by Faith
06-29-2005 8:45 AM


Re: Another Mancunian joins in
If true Christianity (as Faith would have has believe) means making the lives of your neighbours and enemies unpleasant
I request that you prove that I have advocated any such thing.
A fair request. First I will take it back, provisionally rewording it to:
quote:
If true Christianity (as Faith would have has believe) can include making the lives of your neighbours and enemies unpleasant...
So let me see if I can prove that you would have us believe that.
Faith writes:
Christians may have to start their own banks...BIBLE-believing God-fearing Christians...I'm foursquare behind Steven Green...Persecution of Christians is coming in spades
OK, I think I show here that you describe Steven Green as a Christian. Steven Green makes the lives of others unpleasant.
With me so far?
Steven Green makes the lives of others unpleasant. You think that is not only acceptable, but a good thing (your foursquare behind him).
So:
Steven Green makes the lives of his neighbours unpleasant
He is a true Christian
True Christianity can include making the lives of your neighbours unpleasant.
I cannot at this time demonstrate that you would have us believe that being a true Christian means making the lives of neighbours unpleasant, unless you believe that all Christians should act as Steven Green has.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 127 by Faith, posted 06-29-2005 8:45 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 132 by Faith, posted 06-29-2005 11:39 AM Modulous has not replied

  
Modulous
Member
Posts: 7801
From: Manchester, UK
Joined: 05-01-2005


Message 131 of 291 (220660)
06-29-2005 11:08 AM
Reply to: Message 128 by mark24
06-29-2005 10:00 AM


Re: Another Mancunian joins in
Yes, I don't there is an Act that covers it, just case law AFAIK. I believe that a business can refuse to do business with you and give no reason, but if there is evidence the reason is discriminatory (such as a manager saying that very thing) then there is trouble.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 128 by mark24, posted 06-29-2005 10:00 AM mark24 has not replied

  
Modulous
Member
Posts: 7801
From: Manchester, UK
Joined: 05-01-2005


Message 137 of 291 (220701)
06-29-2005 1:35 PM
Reply to: Message 136 by Faith
06-29-2005 1:19 PM


Strong arm
No, the strong arm tactics were threatening to picket Maggie's Centres. This would have upset the patient's being treated and would have been a stress for patients and their families...effectively giving them an extra fight to worry themselves with.
So they didn't so much as threaten Maggie's, as much as threaten the patient's of Maggie's with stress and upset whilst they were fighting off a disease...Maggie's had the power to stop that stress, at the cost of 3,000.
Thus, Christian Voice provided both the disease and the cure and it would cost the victim 3 grand for it. Sounds like blackmail to me.
Extra reading

This message is a reply to:
 Message 136 by Faith, posted 06-29-2005 1:19 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 138 by Faith, posted 06-29-2005 1:54 PM Modulous has not replied

  
Modulous
Member
Posts: 7801
From: Manchester, UK
Joined: 05-01-2005


Message 169 of 291 (221638)
07-04-2005 9:55 AM
Reply to: Message 167 by bubblelife
07-04-2005 9:35 AM


Re: An open call to those who support Abstinence
Hello, you. How's it going?
I'd be interested in seeing new thread(s) discussing abstinence and gay marriage. I'd join in the discussion here, but its almost totally off topic.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 167 by bubblelife, posted 07-04-2005 9:35 AM bubblelife has not replied

  
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