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Author Topic:   Why do you believe what you believe?
1.61803
Member (Idle past 1534 days)
Posts: 2928
From: Lone Star State USA
Joined: 02-19-2004


Message 11 of 108 (226492)
07-26-2005 2:01 PM
Reply to: Message 10 by Chiroptera
07-26-2005 11:25 AM


good post.
I agree with you...we can squint our eyes and stomp our feet and try to will ourselves to believe something, but if the evidence is such that defys belief we are compelled to place our confidence in the facts and the evidence that supports those facts.
Ignorance is bliss.

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 Message 10 by Chiroptera, posted 07-26-2005 11:25 AM Chiroptera has replied

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1.61803
Member (Idle past 1534 days)
Posts: 2928
From: Lone Star State USA
Joined: 02-19-2004


Message 84 of 108 (227060)
07-28-2005 11:50 AM
Reply to: Message 82 by Parasomnium
07-28-2005 3:39 AM


Re: Ex-nihilo and uncaused
greetings Parasomnium,
Parasomnium writes:
Since the universe has not existed always, it must of had a beginning.
So far so good.
Parasomnium writes:
Since there can be nothing outside or before the universe, the beginning of the universe cannot have a cause.
Ut Oh...
Do you happen to know what is the final disposition of matter that enters a black hole?
Also I thought the 'cause' of the universe was the big bang.
Since there is reason to believe that such a singularity occured once, is it illogical to presume it could of occured in some other reality outside of our own cosmos?

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 Message 82 by Parasomnium, posted 07-28-2005 3:39 AM Parasomnium has not replied

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1.61803
Member (Idle past 1534 days)
Posts: 2928
From: Lone Star State USA
Joined: 02-19-2004


Message 87 of 108 (227068)
07-28-2005 12:22 PM
Reply to: Message 85 by Chiroptera
07-28-2005 12:09 PM


Re: What is the Big Bang?
The big bang is a discription of the universe coming into being.
A singularity / a quantum "event" which caused space and time to begin to exist hence the universe is born. But....my whole point was the universe is a result of the singularity / big bang.
I keep seeing this "uncaused" shit and do not understand why it is so difficult to attribute the cause of the universe to the big bang or singularity if you like.
No one knows if it is caused or uncaused. period.

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1.61803
Member (Idle past 1534 days)
Posts: 2928
From: Lone Star State USA
Joined: 02-19-2004


Message 91 of 108 (227160)
07-28-2005 5:10 PM
Reply to: Message 90 by robinrohan
07-28-2005 12:44 PM


Re: What is the Big Bang?
It is not that difficult. A event occured call it what ever the hell you wish to call it:
a. singularity
b. quantum event
c. quantum fluctuation
d. Big Bang
e. Genesis for all I care.
Ok.. you with me on that?
Now once this event occured space/time and the universe began to exist.
My only point is that once this event occured the universe came into existance. So we can attribute the universes beginning to the : a ..b...c..d..or e..
This says nothing of if it was caused by God, the Devil or super intelligent aliens. Or if it was even caused at all, for all we know it just just happened all by itself. My point is there is as of this date any one in the scientific community that can say for sure that the universe is "uncaused". It is postulated and theorized that it may be uncaused. But it is still possible that it could of had a cause.

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 Message 90 by robinrohan, posted 07-28-2005 12:44 PM robinrohan has replied

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1.61803
Member (Idle past 1534 days)
Posts: 2928
From: Lone Star State USA
Joined: 02-19-2004


Message 93 of 108 (227171)
07-28-2005 6:09 PM
Reply to: Message 92 by robinrohan
07-28-2005 5:59 PM


Re: Back to the OP
It is merely a matter of opinion as to whether it is rational or irrational to believe in something or not.
Personally if evidence points to some fact and one chooses to ignore those facts in order to perserve they're beliefs, then they are IMO operating in a state of willful ignorance.
But on the same token, If a militant atheist wants to cram Occam's razor down someones throat who believes in the possiblitie of a creator then fine.
I feel that all that matters is that as long as there are possiblities there is room for beliefs. edit typo.
This message has been edited by 1.61803, 07-28-2005 06:10 PM

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