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Member (Idle past 1434 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
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Author | Topic: Semantics of Cults: What's a cult? | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||
RAZD Member (Idle past 1434 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
a cult might be made up of people from various beliefs You mean like someone combining the concepts of sin from hinduism with the jewish faith? I find it hard to conceive of a group of people getting together to do this, but I can see where a charismatic leader can accomplish this where he has studied several beliefs. Some people think that {Jesus\the man behind the myth of Jesus} (per their view) went to India in his "unknown" years.
have a extra-biblical source of authority Not all cults are christian, ergo bible not necessarily a source in any event. Hindu creationism is independent of christian as well (scientific earth is way too young). by our ability to understand RebelAAmerican.Zen[Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share.
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Nighttrain Member (Idle past 4022 days) Posts: 1512 From: brisbane,australia Joined: |
Sorry, RAZD, I thought the demolition job was confined to Christian sects/cults. I`ll widen my horizons.
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Omnivorous Member Posts: 3991 From: Adirondackia Joined: Member Rating: 6.9 |
arach writes: for instance, lutheranism wasn't a cult, because martin luther wasn't the charismatic leader -- christ was. Hmm. The problem here is that, accepting an exemption based on Christ being the charismatic leader, no Christian subset could ever qualify as a cult. It seems to me that Luther fits the cult bill nicely (no aspersions against present-day Lutherans intended). The thunderstorm conversion and the dramatic acts of dissent are pretty classic cult-founding events. Based on my dim recollection of his personal history, I googled "Luther storm conversion" and selected this quote from the first entry:
Martin Luther was a unique person and may be classified as a genius ” he was an intellect, teacher, preacher, musician, poet, leader of men; he was courageous and had a dynamic personality. In spite of his excellent education, he was rough and crude at times. He was a “bull in a china shop,” and his pen smoked hot against his opposition. It took this kind of explosive, dynamic personality to be a catalyst for the Reformation. Luther was God's man for the hour, and there will probably never be another one quite like him. Walks like a cult leader, talks like a cult leader...
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Nighttrain Member (Idle past 4022 days) Posts: 1512 From: brisbane,australia Joined: |
Martin Luther was a unique person and may be classified as a genius ” he was an intellect, teacher, preacher, musician, poet, leader of men; he was courageous and had a dynamic personality. In spite of his excellent education, he was rough and crude at times. He was a “bull in a china shop,” and his pen smoked hot against his opposition. It took this kind of explosive, dynamic personality to be a catalyst for the Reformation. Luther was God's man for the hour, and there will probably never be another one quite like him. I think that spin-doctor now works for the GOP.
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1434 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
Dobson.
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arachnophilia Member (Idle past 1372 days) Posts: 9069 From: god's waiting room Joined: |
missed this post.
Hmm. The problem here is that, accepting an exemption based on Christ being the charismatic leader, no Christian subset could ever qualify as a cult. yeah, i think i went back on this claim a while ago. either way, i guess point retracted for now.
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Phat Member Posts: 18348 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
RAZD, God loves you and your colorful O.P. In it, you say:
RAZD writes: The purpose is to help a Christian distinguish between legitimate mainstream churches and cults. Taking this in a broader context, the question that comes to me is, how can a normal non-church going (& not necessarily christian) person determine when any church (christian or other) crosses the line from proper faith to cult faith?It seems to me that all churches engage in some of this type of redefinition to distinguish one branch (splinter) of faith from another - Southern Baptist, say, from Protestant or Catholic faiths - and to promote their specific form of {church} more than the {general} faith. Does that not make these splinter faiths cults? Does that make all 'established' religions cults? My (lack of) knowledge of the differences between these groups and what one could call {core faith} is very limited to non-existent, so I am asking this more for my own interest in the perceptions of others than to provide any. I once was in a cult. They never associated with other mainstream churches. They met often. They were aloof and were always to themselves. They had a fiery leader...Paul Schell. We all naively thought of him as a super christian...with access to Gods powers.I did not have a lot of problems with what he preached, but in HOW he acted...(his behavior). This is what he sounds like: Apostle Paul Schell
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macaroniandcheese  Suspended Member (Idle past 3956 days) Posts: 4258 Joined: |
i think that cult is a word that is simply utilized as an us vs them thought. it's always used wrongly and doesn't really mean anything. i mean sure it's easy to say that those crazy people who wear purple sneakers and drink goats blood are a cult, but it's hard to say where exactly a cult ends and where religion begins.
it's really not a useful, productive word.
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1434 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
i think that cult is a word that is simply utilized as an us vs them thought This is emphasising the negative connotations. Cult was used in the quoted article, but there is really little difference between cult and sect in raw meaning (dictionary)
it's really not a useful, productive word. So anyone calling another faith a cult is drawing an artificial distinction? by our ability to understand RebelAAmerican.Zen[Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share.
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1434 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
Don't think I could take much of that voice ...
so is that your avatar? by our ability to understand RebelAAmerican.Zen[Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share.
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macaroniandcheese  Suspended Member (Idle past 3956 days) Posts: 4258 Joined: |
So anyone calling another faith a cult is drawing an artificial distinction?
quite. i think it's silly. it's like calling someone a bleeding-heart liberal. it's supposed to be so very negative when it really doesn't mean anything. liberalism is theoretically defined as democracy. so, hopefully, we're all liberals. the right uses this word, however, to imprecisely define the great and evil "they". sure. mormons are weird, a little creepy with their records and alleged practice of posthumous marriage... but they're relatively normal people with relatively normal wants and needs. sure there are crazies among them, but there are crazies among everyone. same thing with pagans. we all search for truth in different ways. maybe some will never find the truth. but by using imprecise namecalling, we accomplish NOTHING. This message has been edited by brennakimi, 11-13-2005 06:27 PM And why you think you take a Ho to a Ho-tel Ho-tell everybody, even the mayor Reach up in the sky for the Ho-zone layer Now C'mon playa wants a Ho always And Ho's neva close, they open like hallways
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1434 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
did you read msg 3?
http://EvC Forum: Semantics of Cults: What's a cult? -->EvC Forum: Semantics of Cults: What's a cult? to establish ground level before proceeding ...
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randman  Suspended Member (Idle past 4928 days) Posts: 6367 Joined: |
The OP makes me think of evolutionism. I can't tell you how many times discussions have bogged down with evos clinging to semantics arguments, such as what is a species, whether speciation exists, the meaning of transitionals, etc,...and what is disturbing is this is done by evos in a manner that clouds an understanding of the process itself.
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1434 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
yes, just terrible the way they cling to facts when there is a book that has all the answers eh?
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Nighttrain Member (Idle past 4022 days) Posts: 1512 From: brisbane,australia Joined: |
One definition of cult as classified by Anthony Hoekema, Associated Professor of Systematic Theology as stated in 'Confronting the Cults'-Gordon Lewis involves a five point test:
* Extra-Biblical source of authority* Denial of justification by grace alone * Devaluation of Christ * The group as the exclusive community of the saved * The group`s central role in eschatology There ya go, tackle your favourite cult and see how they measure up.
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