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Author Topic:   Did Judas die twice?
iconoclast2440
Inactive Member


Message 7 of 11 (29545)
01-19-2003 2:18 AM


Judge why do you keep assuming this or that? Why couldn't this be a contradiction?

  
iconoclast2440
Inactive Member


Message 9 of 11 (29548)
01-19-2003 2:32 AM
Reply to: Message 8 by judge
01-19-2003 2:18 AM


quote:
"1) The word translated "hanged himself" in the KJV is apanchomai from
the Greek word apancho. It is used only once in the NT. However in
classical literature it means "to strangle" or "to choke" and is used
figuratively to mean to choke with anger or grief.
LOL again nothing more than a suggestion on your behalf. One the many christian works completely disagree with you on. Why are your words more believable than there without a single shread of evidence for your case?
quote:
The word apancho is a combination of apo, "away from," and ancho, "to
squeeze or embrace." Consequently, it carries a negative connotation,
meaning "to squeeze from." "Choking" is a literal "squeezing the life
from" whereas "choking with grief" is figurative as in our English
expression "all choked up."
lol. Again it is also possible here it was used literarly as bible scholars seem to think.
quote:
2) The Expositor's Greek Testament makes note of Grotius, who saw the
difficulty with these two accounts and suggested that apancho points to
death by grief rather than a literal choking.
Lol which still doesn't explain bursting open does it?
quote:
3) This could be correct, but only to the extent that Judas did not die
immediately in Matthew 27, but was extremely greived over his betrayal.
He was carried away by grief and despair. And over a period of time
(about 40 days) he let this grief consume him until he could no longer
tolerate it. This "figurative" usage is verified in the classical writing
of Aristophanes. Aristophanes Vespae 686.
You are really are trying hard aren't you?
quote:
It was this state of mind
that led to his actions which literally resulted in his death.
Of bursting open?
quote:
4) Various Greek manuscripts also indicate difficulties that others
have had with the word apancho by their deliberate change of the text to
more familiar words like apeuchomai which means "to wish a thing away"
(MSS 803, 875, 983, 1415, 1608, 2521, and 2539). Judas wished he had
never betrayed Jesus. This word fits with the word "repent" jused in
Matt.27:3. Judas regretted what he had done and tried to turn away from his
actions in his mind, to wish his thoughts away. One manuscript has the
word apopnigo, which is also used figuratively "to choke with vexation
or rage" (MS 273). A related word pnigalion means "nightmare." Another
manuscript uses the word apago, meaning "to lead away" (MS 827). These
variations in the text indicate misunderstanding of apancho followed by
deliberate and unwarranted attempts at clarification.
Just more presupposition from on behalf. Why do all these scholars disagree with you?
quote:
Understanding the meaning and the figurative usage of apancho in
Matthew 27:5 leaves all four Gospels without any mention of the death of
Judas. His death is then only mentioned in Acts 1, AFTER he saw Jesus
ascend.
OR rather your invented argument in this case. Can you please show some real evidence Judge? Honestly this is nothing more than a mere suggestion on your behalf.
Here again is why it is BS:
Acts
18(With the reward he got for his wickedness, Judas bought a field; there he fell headlong, his body burst open and all his intestines spilled out. 19Everyone in Jerusalem heard about this, so they called that field in their language Akeldama, that is, Field of Blood.)
Matthew:
5So Judas threw the money into the temple and left. Then he went away and hanged himself.
6The chief priests picked up the coins and said, "It is against the law to put this into the treasury, since it is blood money." 7So they decided to use the money to buy the potter's field as a burial place for foreigners. 8That is why it has been called the Field of Blood to this day. 9Then what was spoken by Jeremiah the prophet was fulfilled: "They took the thirty silver coins, the price set on him by the people of Israel, 10and they used them to buy the potter's field, as the Lord commanded me."[1]
What exactly is happening here Judge? Both of these are discussing a change of events which are IMPOSSIBLE by your explination.
In Matthew the preists purchaced Potter's Field after Judas died!
In Acts Judas purchased the field with the money he supposedly threw away! This isn't possible Judge.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 8 by judge, posted 01-19-2003 2:18 AM judge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 10 by judge, posted 01-19-2003 5:34 PM iconoclast2440 has not replied

  
iconoclast2440
Inactive Member


Message 11 of 11 (29761)
01-21-2003 9:54 AM


quote:
Iconoclast, as I explained above (somehow it escaped you)
Judas did not purchse the field with the thirty pieces of silver.
He purchased it with the money he took whilst treasurer.
where on earth do you get that? It says HIS REWARD. They were refering to the money he got from betraying Jesus
quote:
Secondly there are two different fields. To see this you need to go back and look behind our english translations. Can you please do this?
Two different fields? I don't think so. Even if they were the message is still contradictory.
Please show how these are two different fields besides playing semantic games.
With the reward he got for his wickedness, Judas bought a field; there he fell headlong, his body burst open and all his intestines spilled out. 19Everyone in Jerusalem heard about this, so they called that field in their language Akeldama, that is, Field of Blood.)
[This message has been edited by iconoclast2440, 01-21-2003]

  
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