Does Allah = Moon God?

Hi Buz, glad you're back. I'm afraid I didn't do a whole lot for your cause really, got off on the usual tangents. Oh I know. This nutty idea people have that Jehovah and Allah are the same God would be cured real fast by trying that stunt. (Actually, not really I'm afriad. They are so clever at denying anything Christians say while siding with Islam -- which only wants them dead or converted, that's the amazing thing -- that they'll just say that the name "Jehovah" was a corruption and "Allah" is the correct name. Something like that. Whatever, we can't win, Buz.)But my point was just that there are so MANY ways to show that Allah is not Jehovah that the moon god connection isn't essential. I believe I proved it on the other thread many times over.

But that is the point Lfen, as I have discussed many times. I have clearly shown how all we have is these descriptions, so that if these different descriptions contradict one another, as they do, then we are talking about three different Gods being worshipped -- because we all worship God through such a conception.If one idea of God tells you to kill unbelievers and another tells you to offer them free salvation through the blood of Christ we have two completely different Gods. IT DOES NOT MATTER TO THIS LOGICAL POINT WHETHER EITHER ONE OF THEM IS THE TRUE GOD.I've been pretty careful to avoid saying any particular one is right, just that if they contradict one another they all can't be right.This is open and shut. The confusion is coming from someplace other than the problem itself. It's coming from some kind of prejudice that prevents thinking about the logical situation.

How do you figure that?
1. Mohammed created and grew Islam by the sword. Not so with Judeo-Christian Jesus who was totally non-violent.
2. Mohammed was not a Judeo-Christian. He and his family and forbears were pagans who worshipped one or more of the 300 plus gods at Mecca, including Allah which evolved from Sin, the moon god.
3. Go figure. Allah, thus emerged from paganism, not Judeo Christianity.
4. That Islam has been the chief rival of Judeo-Christianity since it's inception and remains so, should tell you something as to the problem with your claim.

---

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 Z Y BUZ SAW

you replied to my message, and most of it was about what i was saying. and yet, christianity has its origin in judaism, and judaism has its origin in other polytheistic religions of the region. what i'm saying is that it is intellectually dishonest for you to claim superiority to the islamic faith because they are doing the very thing you yourself are also doing. actually, no, i haven't. i think perhaps you missed the point i was trying to make. i know we've discussed the linguistic commonality between the hebrew word for god and the arabic word for god. it's no suprise that they're cognates -- there's a lot of similar vocabulary in the two languages. and i am not defending the position that allah and el are the same god. that was another thread, and one i chose to sit out of.what i am saying is that if you are going to tie allah to earlier polytheistic religions by language, etymology, and cognates, then you have to realize that the same can be done just as easily with hebrew. there is NO reason why it would be valid for one word in one language, but not its cognate in another. at best, one is derived from the other. at worst, they share the same derivation. you don't call whether or not we can be in the same room with god a contradiction? one "facet" of god's character kills us from a distance of several thousand feet, but another lets us physically touch him? no, you did not. because here is the doubt, which you are conveniently ignoring: if contradictions PROVE that two texts do not represent the same god then judaism MUST be polytheistic because it displays a number of contradictory passages about god. it must not be talking about the same god, then.i'm not saying that allah and el/yahweh are the same god -- i'm saying that this is not a valid argument.This message has been edited by arachnophilia, 04-30-2006 10:50 PM

---

you are aware, of course, that muslims accept jesus as a prophet? they consider allah to be the same god as the god of adam, noah, abraham, moses, and jesus.the difference is that they don't accept jesus as the son of god, or a saviour.

---

whoa whoa whoa. we skipped a whole part of the bible!do we forget how formal judaism was formed? after that whole bit with moses in the desert and all that, how was the jewish center of worship established?i'll give you hint: i'm thinking of the other jesus. abram's family was pagan too. did we forget that as well?

---

Bless you, madear! I'm very grateful for all the work you've done here! Sorry I haven't been able to help you out more. I'm not only dial up slow, but a slow methodical thinker. It takes me a while to do most posts. I'm off to bed for tonight. Talk to you later.

---

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 Z Y BUZ SAW

1. Talk is cheap. What their leaders accept and what they tolerate are not one and the same.
2. What they consider about Allah is what's been programmed into them. History sets the record straight and Islam agrees that Allah is not Jehovah. If they were the same their leaders would allow for both to be peached and accepted. Simple as that.
3. Why don't they accept that Jesus is the son of Allah? Because he was not the son of their god Allah. He was the son of the Judeo-Christian god, Jehovah. Why not savior? Because that would rival the Ilam messiah, Mohammed. You see, two totally different and rival religions, gods and all!

Sorry, my friend. This thread is not about how Judiasim or Christianity originated so I'll decline a response to that.

---

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 Z Y BUZ SAW

sure, and you've NEVER heard of any christian groups that promote violence. here's a prominent one, with a nice-sounding name: the church of jesus christ, christian. buz, i attended a pentacostal church for a number of years. i know a thing or two about programming. and history has set the record straight that "jehovah" is not ha-shem. why don't you listen? could it be... programming? history has also made it abundantly clear that the god of the old testament is not the same as the god of the new testament. why is the new testament valid, but not the old? and not the qu'ran?

---

to quote my good friend ray martinez, "inability to refute."look buz, you brought it up, as a difference. saying you're not going to talk about it when it's brought up that they are actually the same is what we call a "cop out."you can't pretend your argument is valid if you ignore it when it turns out that it works equally well against you. that's called "hypocrisy."

---

Islam less derived from judeo-Christian thought, than bastardized and apprehended it.Half of Islam is reasonably true to Judaism and Christianity, although it tends to transfer moral reasoning and personal responsibility from the individual to rules from Allah devoid of individual interpretation or nuance. The other half of Islam is nothing more than a call to imperial war against all non Muslims until they are thoroughly defeated, killed or converted.

is it true to judaism, or christianity? they're not the same religions, you know. wait wait.has anyone here actually read the qu'ran?

---

The Jewish people did go to war with G-d's blessing. However, they never set out to convert others or conquer the world for G-d. In contrast, the war verses set Muslims, in perpetutity, to war against non Muslims until they are conquered, subjgated, killed or converted.Islam is at its very heart a set of contradictions so great as to constitute a faith at civil war with itself.Here's an interesting debate which indirectly addresses this, between two Muslims and two non Muslims:http://frontpagemagazine.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=...

I accept that there are major conceptual differences between Islam's and Judaism's and Christianity's conception of God and the practise of their religions.I'm certainly not a proponent of Islam. My first negative impression came when I read Durant's Story of Civilization when I was in high school. I was appalled at the way they invaded and trashed India.But I believe that Sufis and most Muslims address the source of the Universe as they understand it and that in the case of the Sufis their understanding, which I suspect has been influenced by exposure to Vedantic Advaitism and Buddhism, but perhaps not, is advanced over that of the founder of the religion.In the field of religion I think concepts work best when they lead beyond themselves to experience. People progress at different rates through concepts.Buz's OP was overstated to the point of being false. I think he over identifies Muslims with fundamentalist. And at present the long history of conflict is once again heated up by the past hundred years of European dominance over Arabic affairs and the politics, economics, and religious issues are combining to create many problems.Buz's topic does Allah = Moon God has been refuted. It was an unskillful attack on Islam on his part anyway. As Maslow said: lfenedited out some misplaced apostrophesThis message has been edited by lfen, 04-30-2006 08:34 PM