Does Allah = Moon God?

1) By reasonably true, I don't mean an exact copy. I mean reasonably consistent with messages of faith, good behaviour, and the monotheic G-d as a conception of morality, the creator, the knowable and unknowable.2) I've read the Koran. half of it is fine. The other half is so barbaric, so utterly vile, as to be shocking. And therein lays the explanation for Islamism, replete with their quotes, ideas, motivation to Islamic imperialism, even why they chant from the koran when sawing off the heads of Jews and infidels.

yes, but on the other hand they were commanded to commit genocide, in total. they were commanded to utterly exterminate more than one entire race of people.christians are commanded to spread the good news to the entire world.judaism's conquering + christianity's whole world = ? as a christian, i can tell you that faith is nothing if not an inward civil war. christianity sets up its own set of internal contradictions, and ones that cost a good many people their faith. thanks for the article.

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The Qur’an prescribes no earthly penalty for the individual who ceases believing in Islam, in fact, many verses appear to affirm the freedom of religion and conscience.

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clearly, we can find the same sets of contradictions, and differences of opinions and interpretations in islam that we can find in christianity.

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vaguely, yes. we won't find exact copies WITHIN each religion. but similar areas, similar cultures lead to similar religions. yes, i'm sure there is stuff in there the terrorists see as justification -- just like there is stuff in the bible that the white supremecists and abortion bombers see as justification. sufficiently large, sufficiently contradictory texts can be quote-mined to support just about anything.i have to get around to reading the qu'ran at some point. i was going to do it this summer, but it's been bumped down my reading list by a hebrew copy of the chumash. but who knows how well that'll go? i foresee lots of headaches and frustration.

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The Jews were commanded to commit genocide. It is awful, and I struggle with that always. But, there is, nonetheless, a huge difference between a faith that once, in biblical times, did such a thing, and a faith ordered to kill and conquer forever, all non Muslim peoples everywhere, until total and final victory. There is nothing in judaism that would justify war now and into the future. There is everything in Islam that justifies, even instructs, exactly that.

You wrote: "es, i'm sure there is stuff in there the terrorists see as justification -- just like there is stuff in the bible that the white supremecists and abortion bombers see as justification. sufficiently large, sufficiently contradictory texts can be quote-mined to support just about anything."That is the kind of assumption i held... until i read the Koran. Boy was I shockingly wrong. The bibles are hugely, instrumentally different than the koran. The former are consistent with Moses and jesus, the latter is often consistent with the "perfect" man Mohammed, and the polygamist, pedophilic, murdering, aggressive warrior, slave owning man he was.

this is probably a valid point. (though i'm not confident in saying that such a command was really from god, or that the israelites really commited genocide)yet israel still attacks palestine (and vice versa). at this point, there's no point crying foul, and saying "they started it!" doesn't do much. and i'm sure the aspect of "the promised land" has something to do with israeli actions. i don't think either side of that war is without blame.part of it is cultural. i heard a good story the other day about clinton meeting with the prime ministers of israel and palestine, and the two fought over who could go in the doors of camp david first. not to be polite, but because on would not do something just because the other said so. apparently, in the middle east, the concept of being somebody's "fool" (i guess is the best translation) is pretty pervasive. take advantage, or someone will take advantage of you.it occurs to me that half of the war can be explained by this. for years, israel refused to give up gaza -- not because they wanted it, but because they weren't going to do it just because someone else said so. and when they DID, palestinians all said "we don't want it!"

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i had a lot of assumptions about the bible, too. until i read it. but yes, i am not qualified to make a judgement of the qu'ran. i'll read it eventually, i promise. maybe this is the difference. i can't say much for the pedophilia, but the patriarchs of judaism were almost all polygamists, and owned servants. moses was a murder, and joshua was an agressive warrior.but in judaism, the interpretation is not that these are examples to follow. but rather, they are counter examples, because man is flawed.still, the polygamist (heretical) mormon families in utah use the polygamy of the old testament as justification. i'm sure we could think of a few other groups that choose not to agree with the standard jewish reading of things.

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No problem, I get things wrong. How about we play tit for tat comparisons between YHWH and Allah and Allah and Sin. You tell me what properties Allah and Sin share, and I'll respond with equal or more properties Allah and YHWH share. If you look back you'll see where Faith and I left off, I was ahead three. Message 90 should let you know where we are at From the simple evidence Buzz. The number of shared derived properties Allah has of YHWH and the massive differences Allah has with the pagan god Sin. The only similarity they share is that they are both called 'The God'. Sometimes Ptah was given the name 'I am that I am', does that mean that YHWH is actually Ptah?This message has been edited by Modulous, Mon, 01-May-2006 07:47 AM

No, it hasn't been proved, it has been argued. I believe your position was massively in the minority. Well - it seems the point of the quotes was not to show the proof, but to show that Morey is not a widely accepted source. The support was provided in the form of a link. So now that's cleared up. Hehe, I bet you didn't expect us Islam apologists/Pro-Islamists to accept that. Of course, we could do a thread now on the polythiest origins, influences and symbology we find in Judaism and Christianity. I wouldn't expect you to be quite so willing to accept the sources on that though Trust me, that's the last thing I want. The subthread turned to which god Allah most resembles, YHWH or Sin. I believe so far it has been concluded that Allah is more like YHWH than Sin.This message has been edited by Modulous, Mon, 01-May-2006 07:27 AM

too late mod, look back a few pages.faith, in message 112 of this very thread wrote the following in response to this very point, which i already brought up:

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Yes indeed I deny any origin of Biblical religion in polytheism. From beginning to end it was THE answer to heathen idolatries given by the one true God Himself.

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faith does not see it as hypocritical to point the finger at one set of beliefs as denying their polytheistic roots, while doing the very same thing yourself.

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Massively. But I was right and I proved it. This isn't a popularity contest, this isn't about belief. Logically I showed the facts and i proved it. Too bad nobody understands logic. And I mean that.

That's because there ARE no polytheistic ROOTS to Biblical religion. It is a revelation of the true God from beginning to end, the answer to the polytheism around.You are confusing the mere use of language and cultural forms for ROOTS and INFLUENCE. Good grief. There is no necessary connection. Abraham's family were polytheists but the Bible is about Abraham's being the beginning of the answer to polytheism in the worship of the true God. There is no INFLUENCE for heaven's sake, there is only the story of the shedding of the polythesim. The whole thing is about God's progressive teaching of His true nature to a bunch of fallen polytheists. A bunch of polytheists encountered in person the one true God and are gradually weaned away from their old paganism.I'm also not all that interested in how much polytheism remains in Islam. It's clear that Allah is not Jehovah from many points of view without getting into the moon god.

That's fine, its your opinion and I'm not here to argue it. The point is that it is more derived from Judeo-Christian God than it is derived from Sin. It seems you agree.

He's not talking about derivation. He's talking about how some of it sounds civilized and some of it sounds barbaric.

yes, faith. there are. i posted them earlier in this thread. you ignored them, waved your hands around, and told me you didn't want to listen to them. that's your belief. coincidentally, muslims believe the SAME THING about their religion. why do you think it's not hypocritical to call someone on something that you yourself are guilty of? and you ignored where i pointed out things in the bible that were clearly indicitive of polytheistic origins. language is PART of the argument, but not the ONLY argument. the linguistically linked god in other cultures share many properties, and many of the of the stories appear as well, too. but if it's the bible that influenced those cultures (and not vice versa) as i'm sure you'd claim, then the bible would be absolutely devoid any polytheistic tendencies. and it's not. that great. the muslims claim the same thing about their religion. and the muslims consider mohammed a member of that line of prophets, the next step in the progress. at the end of this, it comes down to YOUR opinion, and YOUR belief. not fact.and if you can't recognize that by its very nature religion is taken on faith then you are unworthy of the name attached to your posts, because it is evidently meaningless to you. whether yahweh is allah is not under debate at this time. you had a thread about that, and i don't feel like arguing either way right now. what is under debate is whether islam has polytheistic origins, and what that means in light of the polytheistic origins of other monotheistic religions.

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