Does Allah = Moon God?

OK, sure. All you 'proved' was that if people describe an entity in different ways they must be describing different entities. You didn't actually show a reason for this, you just stated it as if it were established fact without concern for examples that showed it as inconsistent.You could probably give it a good go, perhaps for next time, using Plato and his Platonic ideals. I'm not sure how succesful you'll be, but there you go.So yes, all you proved was that the descriptions of the God differed, which is self evident. Anyway, that's the subject of another debate. The point was declaring yourself right and having proved a point under debate is poor form, don't you think? Agreed. Remember when that logic test was posted, and it showed you had confirmation bias, but you had difficulty understanding that? It is a shame that more people don't understand logic, but its a complicated entity and it takes a background in maths to get its finer points. The ironic thing about logic is that basically everyone is sure that they understand logic, even especially if they hold a minority position.Usually, when I hold the minority position, I'm happy to consider the possibility that I'm massively wrong (there are a couple of exceptions that spring to mind, and eventually I got the picture ). Indeed, I'm happy to consider that when I am in the majority too, but its much easier when I'm in the minority. In almost all cases, there is a reason for my being in the minority. I'm not talking about opinions of course, but arguments.What strikes me, is the hubris that the minority often seem to show in debate. Sometimes they, like me, are open minded about the prospect of having got it wrong. However, it is more common for the minority to convince themselves they are the cabal of the voice of reason, and that everyone else is stupid/illogical/blind/biased/whatever.Anyway, back to the topic at hand, no? I think it has been thoroughly shown that Islam's Allah shares only a superficial resemblence to the Allah of Arabic polythiesm, and shares pretty much all the characteristics of YHWH, with some fundamental and key differences.

I know, but that's not the topic. I politely described for Steve, the point I was making in the post that he replied to.This message has been edited by Modulous, Mon, 01-May-2006 08:26 AM

no no, they're comparing allah to the SUMERIAN moon god, Sin.linguistically, allah would be al-ilah (the god), and thus related to il, the same ugaritic/messopotamian god i mentioned before as related to the hebrew el. this is NOT a coincidence. they all mean "god."(what really gets me is when faith says "this isn't about belief." clearly, it is.)This message has been edited by arachnophilia, 05-01-2006 03:35 AM

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I didn't ignore anything. You didn't show any roots or influences. You can identify this or that linguistic cultural framework, which one would expect to be there. That's not the same thing as roots of beliefs about God. This message has been edited by AdminPD, 05-01-2006 07:04 AM

i direct you to post #100. (psst, religion is part of cultural framework) if what you say is true, then we shouldn't see any polytheistic tendencies in the bible, especially since you hold that the bible is the undiluted, unperverted, entire and literal word of the singular and all powerful god.by far the majority of that post has to do with the bible, not other cultures, not linguistics, and not similarities to anything. just the CONTENT of the bible. This message has been edited by AdminPD, 05-01-2006 07:02 AM

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The MERE use of language and cultural forms?! As influence on literature goes, they would have to rank amongst the most important.Anyway if, as you say, "there is no necessary connection", then it is hypocritical of you to imply that for Islam there is. Your religious prejudices drive you to accept one level of "proof" for Christianity, and entriely another for Islam.This message has been edited by RickJB, 05-01-2006 03:55 AM This message has been edited by AdminPD, 05-01-2006 07:05 AM

no i keep saying this because, your justification for god only being one way is not factual its based on your faith in a bookas for allah being a moon god, its irrelevent if they do not worship him as a moon god,even if they use the moon as a symbol. as i told someone else christians use the fish as a symbol of jesus, it looks just like the symbol for venus and other goddesses of fertility, does that mean they worship venus?
i think the answer would be no so no, symbology and historic evolution is interesting, and telling if you believe that your god is somehow a new idea, instead of say a name co-opted to make it easier for people to accept it.
which is pretty much universal for all the religions, including all monothiestic ones

I know.

this is pure belief it is not based on facts or logic or evidence, infact the bible shows polythiestic underpannings so you would willfully ignore human influnces on other humans? how seperated from the world can you get? as i have said, this is not based on anything but your own beliefs, i will keep saying it. the things god does are the same in all three religions, the beliefs are all generally the same, but they don't contain all your beliefs
the books all follow the same pathway only differing on cultural contexts
all of your "proof" is not really proof of anything much, just like peoples beliefs that sin is allah, when they are nothing alike This message has been edited by AdminPD, 05-01-2006 07:07 AM

this is exactly my point. but i want to make another, more on topic. and the first one is about language: suppose we were to translate the hebrew bible, and/or the new testament in arabic. how would we refer to god? well, there's a word for god, in arabic. and it's "ilah." but considering that judaism and christianity are monotheistic religions, the article "the" would be used in front. that "al-ilah." but since the "eh" is left off in cases like that, the word "allah."suprised? don't trust me (faith)? find a copy of a bible in arabic, and see for yourself. it turns out that christians have just as many objections to copies of the bible in arabic as muslims do, and for this very reason. it gets confusing if allah and yahweh are not the same god, but referred to exactly the same way by tradition. it gets worse. "ilah" should look familiar. i brought up "il" already, as the origin of the biblical "el" and variants. turns out "allah" is derived from the same word. curious, right? keep reading.our famous second joshua (with the terribly mis-pronounced name), lord and saviour to us christians, spoke a language called aramaic. parts of the bible are even written in it, and it was quite a popular and common language after the death of biblical hebrew. it comes from aramaea. aramaic, and arabic were two of the biggest influences on the hebrew language. guess how you say "god" in aramaic?"allaha." when jesus prayed, or spoke of god, the word he used was "allaha."now, let's take a look at the moon god. the moon god is "sin" in sumerian, and was a member of the pantheon in akkadia/sumeria/babylon, as well as ugarit i'm sure. how does sin relate (linguistically or otherwise) to allah? well, he doesn't. the only thing in common is that he's the moon god, and we associate the crescent moon with islam. seems a little... silly.especially when we consider that islam expressly forbids the use of symbols and artwork to depict ANYTHING, not just god. ever wondered why there was no great islamic illuminated manuscript? or painting during the rennaissance? this is why. rather, they stuck to geometric figures, and tesselations. (which in turn inspired escher, btw. sorry, art major)the star and the crescent moon are the insignia of the ottoman empire. many arabic (and islamic) nations use the symbols out of tradition, but they are not more associate with the religion than they are with the god. to make such a claim would be similar to saying that "jehovah" can be represented by the eagle, because it is the symbol of our christian nation. the argument is wrong on every count, not to mention that eagles and graven images are abominations according to the bible. likewise, islam expressly forbids worship of the moon... or the sun, or the stars, all of which (says the qu'ran) were created by allah. they are not god, they are creations of god.someone suggested googling "allah moon god" before. read the third hit.

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round and round we go, making the same points over and over again on deaf ears.woe unto us, who think we shall be heard for our much speaking.This message has been edited by arachnophilia, 05-01-2006 04:28 AM

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To ReverendDG. About the moon and star of Islam.1-The symbol of the fish for christians isn't in the Bible.
2-I don't know the origine of the star of David, as far as I know that's not in the Bible either.
3-It's mainly Catholic governments that were untolerant to others. Even worse than Islam. But about Catholism that's a another controversial topic.For me Islam is just a very bad copy of Christian-Judaism. Mohammed just stole some elements from the Christian and Jewish travellers that passed the place he lived. He lived at a caravanroute.
He made a legalistic religion of it.It's also claimed by a ex-jesuit that the Vatican created Islam as a tool against the Jews and Christians that were opposed to Rome. This message has been edited by AdminPD, 05-01-2006 07:08 AM

An example of a muslim converted to Christ.ABC.net.au: Page Not FoundHopefully he will survive it.An example of people converted to Islam.Converted to IslamLook how nice and lovely people they have become. This message has been edited by AdminPD, 05-01-2006 07:08 AM

As I warned in Message 118, I'm closing this thread for a short timeout, which will last until my lunch hour.

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Does Allah = Moon God?