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Topic: brain...exploding...from...irony...
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nator
Member (Idle past 2200 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: 12-09-2001
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Message 1 of 73 (354444)
10-05-2006 1:45 PM
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I simply despair of my country if people like this are ever allowed into power. My unspoken fear is that they already are in power. http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/story?section=local&id=4625303
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nator
Member (Idle past 2200 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: 12-09-2001
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Message 3 of 73 (354448)
10-05-2006 1:57 PM
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Reply to: Message 2 by Phat
10-05-2006 1:51 PM
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Re: The Agony and the Irony
quote:
Alton Verm needs to realize that the U.S. is NOT a theocracy.
I'm not so sure it isn't.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 2 by Phat, posted 10-05-2006 1:51 PM | | Phat has not replied |
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nator
Member (Idle past 2200 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: 12-09-2001
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Message 10 of 73 (354476)
10-05-2006 3:31 PM
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Reply to: Message 4 by Silent H
10-05-2006 2:00 PM
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quote:
Our firemen? Did he not understand that firemen in that book burned books, or do they seriously have such firemen where he lives?
Of course he didn't understand. He's an ignorant religious hick. And yes, I know that "hick" is a perjorative term. It fits.
"Science is like a blabbermouth who ruins a movie by telling you how it ends! Well I say there are some things we don't want to know! Important things!" - Ned Flanders "Question with boldness even the existence of God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear." - Thomas Jefferson
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 4 by Silent H, posted 10-05-2006 2:00 PM | | Silent H has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 13 by Silent H, posted 10-05-2006 3:52 PM | | nator has not replied |
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nator
Member (Idle past 2200 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: 12-09-2001
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Is it that they agree with these folk or are they embrassed to be associated with them? quote:
The latter..... Its never good when somebody that you ordinarily might identify with does something stupid that makes everyone look bad by default. Insert scandal here _____________
The difference for me, and most of the liberal people I know, is that we would be right there with you if you found some liberal behaving in a equally stupid manner. Conservatives seem to have some kind of unspoken rule to never, ever criticize one another in public unless forced to. It's a "team mentality". Loyalty above everything else, or something like that.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 17 by Hyroglyphx, posted 10-05-2006 5:08 PM | | Hyroglyphx has replied |
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nator
Member (Idle past 2200 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: 12-09-2001
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Re: Polarity
quote:
I don't know about all of that. When Clinton was taking fire for his sex scandal, first it was deny, deny, deny, "Bill would never do such a thing."
I don't know what liberals you are talking to, but all of my friends were incredibly pissed off that Clinton could be so stupid, and said so. Very openly.
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Then once he was caught beyond any reasonable doubt the tactic changed to minimizing what actually happened. "Whatever, America is so lame. In Europe sex is no big deal." Rrrrrrright, I'm sure those were Hilary's sentiments too. Its "just" sex.
Again, that simply wasn't my experience. We were pretty disappointed in him. But the Starr witchunt was even more disappointing, and the entire inquiry was obviously politically motivated.
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Even though I mainatin a more Conservative view, I think both parties are a bit ridiculous, only because its caused such a deep rift in the fiber of the country. Its more about, as you said, being loyal to the party than it is about doing the right thing no matter what.
Hey, liberals didn't coin the term "Dittohead".
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Its the reason why I'm a registered Independent. Screw political parties. All I care about is voting for the Cabinet that will benefit the United States and by extension, the World, by making sound decisions. Unfortunately, the way the voting system is set up, you can't just vote for man, you have to vote with their political affiliations and all its baggage.
Well, that is certainly the case.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 21 by Hyroglyphx, posted 10-05-2006 7:38 PM | | Hyroglyphx has not replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 23 by subbie, posted 10-05-2006 9:19 PM | | nator has replied |
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nator
Member (Idle past 2200 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: 12-09-2001
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Message 24 of 73 (354595)
10-05-2006 9:25 PM
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Reply to: Message 23 by subbie
10-05-2006 9:19 PM
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Re: Polarity
quote:
Do you know what a "Dittohead" is? And what the term means?
Yes. "Dittohead" was a term coined by particularly rabid fans of Rush Limbaugh who used it to refer to themselves in order to indicate that they agreed with everything he said.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 23 by subbie, posted 10-05-2006 9:19 PM | | subbie has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 25 by subbie, posted 10-05-2006 9:29 PM | | nator has replied |
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nator
Member (Idle past 2200 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: 12-09-2001
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Message 26 of 73 (354602)
10-05-2006 9:49 PM
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Reply to: Message 7 by Brian
10-05-2006 2:45 PM
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quote:
That's frightening.
I was thinking more from personal experience. At uni and conferences I have met and spoken to literally 100's of Americans and they were all 'normal' people, equally dismayed at creationism. The only oddball types are the ones I have met on here and at other boards. You must dispair for your country.
I do. And so does Garrison Keillor: http://www.inthesetimes.com/site/main/article/979/ Here is a snippet of his fantastic essay: (I just want to say that I hope I never piss Garrison Keillor off)
Something has gone seriously haywire with the Republican Party. Once, it was the party of pragmatic Main Street businessmen in steel-rimmed spectacles who decried profligacy and waste, were devoted to their communities and supported the sort of prosperity that raises all ships. They were good-hearted people who vanquished the gnarlier elements of their party, the paranoid Roosevelt-haters, the flat Earthers and Prohibitionists, the antipapist antiforeigner element. The genial Eisenhower was their man, a genuine American hero of D-Day, who made it OK for reasonable people to vote Republican. He brought the Korean War to a stalemate, produced the Interstate Highway System, declined to rescue the French colonial army in Vietnam, and gave us a period of peace and prosperity, in which (oddly) American arts and letters flourished and higher education burgeoned”and there was a degree of plain decency in the country. Fifties Republicans were giants compared to today’s. Richard Nixon was the last Republican leader to feel a Christian obligation toward the poor. In the years between Nixon and Newt Gingrich, the party migrated southward down the Twisting Trail of Rhetoric and sneered at the idea of public service and became the Scourge of Liberalism, the Great Crusade Against the Sixties, the Death Star of Government, a gang of pirates that diverted and fascinated the media by their sheer chutzpah, such as the misty-eyed flag-waving of Ronald Reagan who, while George McGovern flew bombers in World War II, took a pass and made training films in Long Beach. The Nixon moderate vanished like the passenger pigeon, purged by a legion of angry white men who rose to power on pure punk politics. “Bipartisanship is another term of date rape,” says Grover Norquist, the Sid Vicious of the GOP. “I don’t want to abolish government. I simply want to reduce it to the size where I can drag it into the bathroom and drown it in the bathtub.” The boy has Oedipal problems and government is his daddy. The party of Lincoln and Liberty was transmogrified into the party of hairy-backed swamp developers and corporate shills, faith-based economists, fundamentalist bullies with Bibles, Christians of convenience, freelance racists, misanthropic frat boys, shrieking midgets of AM radio, tax cheats, nihilists in golf pants, brownshirts in pinstripes, sweatshop tycoons, hacks, fakirs, aggressive dorks, Lamborghini libertarians, people who believe Neil Armstrong’s moonwalk was filmed in Roswell, New Mexico, little honkers out to diminish the rest of us, Newt’s evil spawn and their Etch-A-Sketch president, a dull and rigid man suspicious of the free flow of information and of secular institutions, whose philosophy is a jumble of badly sutured body parts trying to walk. Republicans: The No.1 reason the rest of the world thinks we’re deaf, dumb and dangerous. Rich ironies abound! Lies pop up like toadstools in the forest! Wild swine crowd round the public trough! Outrageous gerrymandering! Pocket lining on a massive scale! Paid lobbyists sit in committee rooms and write legislation to alleviate the suffering of billionaires! Hypocrisies shine like cat turds in the moonlight! O Mark Twain, where art thou at this hour? Arise and behold the Gilded Age reincarnated gaudier than ever, upholding great wealth as the sure sign of Divine Grace.
"Science is like a blabbermouth who ruins a movie by telling you how it ends! Well I say there are some things we don't want to know! Important things!" - Ned Flanders "Question with boldness even the existence of God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear." - Thomas Jefferson
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 7 by Brian, posted 10-05-2006 2:45 PM | | Brian has not replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 30 by subbie, posted 10-05-2006 10:10 PM | | nator has not replied |
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nator
Member (Idle past 2200 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: 12-09-2001
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Message 27 of 73 (354604)
10-05-2006 9:57 PM
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Reply to: Message 25 by subbie
10-05-2006 9:29 PM
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Re: Polarity
quote:
A "dittohead" is not someone who agrees with everything Rush says. A "dittohead" is someone who is "dittoing" previous praise that other callers to the show have given. They are not saying they agree with Rush, they are saying they agree with what others have said about the show.
Oh, well, perhaps I was misinformed. Can you provide the source for your definition?
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 25 by subbie, posted 10-05-2006 9:29 PM | | subbie has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 28 by subbie, posted 10-05-2006 10:07 PM | | nator has replied |
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nator
Member (Idle past 2200 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: 12-09-2001
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Message 37 of 73 (354865)
10-06-2006 5:51 PM
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Reply to: Message 28 by subbie
10-05-2006 10:07 PM
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Re: Polarity
quote:
Despite what you may have heard, or would like to believe, not everyone who listens to Rush agrees with everything he says, nor do most of them let him do their thinking for them.
Well, all I can say is that anybody who has listened to Rush or watched his show and doesn't realize that a great deal of what he says is pure horseshit is either a lazy-thinking team player, incredibly naive, or merely stupid. Rush is the embodiment of everything that is wrong with political discourse in this country.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 28 by subbie, posted 10-05-2006 10:07 PM | | subbie has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 41 by subbie, posted 10-06-2006 6:21 PM | | nator has replied |
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nator
Member (Idle past 2200 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: 12-09-2001
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Message 40 of 73 (354869)
10-06-2006 6:04 PM
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Reply to: Message 33 by Silent H
10-06-2006 5:11 AM
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Re: everybody's doing it
quote:
Within any fraction of liberals I find the exact same team mentality behavior, and have even seen it here on specific topics. I have seen conservatives stand up against behavior from within their overall group... just not as many, with those in the directly affected portion likely to keep quiet.
Maybe it's because most of my friends and aquaintences are academics, and specifically, scientists, and so are more accustomed to voicing criticisms and of receiving them, too. Many other friends are often from typically marginalized or disaffected groups (especially non-believers) who are wary of or disinclined to identifying too strongly with any authority figure or authoritative group.
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I think team mentality is a human behavior, all ranges of political persuasion are susceptible.
Of course. That's why I spoke from my own experience.
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Heck, so is the will to censorship. Even liberals have books they want outlawed, just for different reasons. Perhaps they won't burn them to avoid connotations, but the effect is the same.
What books do liberals want outlawed?
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 33 by Silent H, posted 10-06-2006 5:11 AM | | Silent H has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 65 by Silent H, posted 10-08-2006 9:10 AM | | nator has not replied |
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nator
Member (Idle past 2200 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: 12-09-2001
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Message 42 of 73 (354880)
10-06-2006 6:43 PM
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Reply to: Message 41 by subbie
10-06-2006 6:21 PM
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Re: Polarity
quote:
But to complain only about him without leveling he same complaint at the other side when they do the same thing only addresses half the problem.
Who, on the other side, does the same thing? And I don't think it is inappropriate to single Rush out. He is more reckless, more injurious to the facts, more insulting, and a much bigger liar than almost any other of his ilk, except maybe Ann Coulter. There are at least couple of dozen more like him on the conservative side. How many on the liberal side can you list that are just as bad? Edited by schrafinator, : No reason given.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 41 by subbie, posted 10-06-2006 6:21 PM | | subbie has replied |
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nator
Member (Idle past 2200 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: 12-09-2001
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Message 46 of 73 (354893)
10-06-2006 7:34 PM
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Reply to: Message 44 by subbie
10-06-2006 7:01 PM
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Re: Polarity
quote:
Arianna Huffington,
I am baffled as to why you would bring her up. She is a former Republican and now more or less a Libertarian. I'd love to know what you think it is about what she says and how she says it that even approaches the level of fact-ignoring and offensiveness of Limbaugh. Any examples?
quote:
Michael Kinsley
I have never heard of this person, so he can't count as being in the same league as Limbaugh.
quote:
and James Carville come immediately to mind.
James Carville, I'll certainly grant you, is a fairly shrill Democratic political creature. However, he makes no bones about his job as an utter partisan, whereas Limbaugh portrays himself as being the messenger of the "truth" about social and political issues. Still, I don't think that any of your examples can even approach Limbaugh's disdain for facts.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 44 by subbie, posted 10-06-2006 7:01 PM | | subbie has not replied |
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nator
Member (Idle past 2200 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: 12-09-2001
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Re: Call the show... I can't wait to hear
quote:
You are so classic (liberal) in your attitude and misunderstanding of Rush's show and audience. One of the great attractions to listeners of his show is how he handles liberals who call in. (maybe you should call!)
The entertainment value is why so many people listen.
Another part of the entertainment is how he exposes hypocrisy by playing clips of what a politician says now vs earlier.
If Rush makes you angry and/or frustrated, I would guess Michael Savage doubles it for you. He is more outlandish, but usually entertaining and can make me laugh. He is not a fan of either Republicans or Democrats. The key thing for both of them is not literally what they say, but how they can provide perspectives that you might not have thought of, since the news media seeks entertainment by sensationalism and ignorant awareness of its own bias. Conservative talk radio tells its listeners what the liberal-oriented media chooses not to tell.
Rush limbaugh lies. He lies, and lies, and lies, but portrays himself as someone who exposes the "truth". He is utterly irresponsible reagarding the what he states as fact. I don't for a minute believe that most people who listen to Rush Limbaugh understand that. Sure, they listen for entertainment, but I also think they believe that what he claims is true when it often is false. Have you ever read the rather large section devoted to Rush Limbaugh at Fairness and Accuracy in Reporting? His lies are documented in exhaustive detail there. I've read the entire thing, and it's pathetic.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 47 by ThingsChange, posted 10-06-2006 7:55 PM | | ThingsChange has not replied |
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nator
Member (Idle past 2200 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: 12-09-2001
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Message 54 of 73 (355004)
10-07-2006 4:15 PM
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Reply to: Message 52 by subbie
10-07-2006 3:33 PM
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Re: Parents' ideas aren't always preferable
Message #46?
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 52 by subbie, posted 10-07-2006 3:33 PM | | subbie has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 56 by subbie, posted 10-07-2006 4:48 PM | | nator has replied |
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nator
Member (Idle past 2200 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: 12-09-2001
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Re: Call the show... I can't wait to hear
quote:
Conservative talk radio tells its listeners what the liberal-oriented media chooses not to tell.
Conservative talk radio tells its listeners what they want to hear. It's a business, and is in the business to make money, just the same as any other for-profit media outlet. Therefore, they just feed all of those right-wingers exactly what they love to keep them happy. (kick out the immigrants, everything is Clinton's fault, fags are destroying Chritian marriage, everything is Clinton's fault, flag-burning is the most important issue of the day, everything is Clinton's fault...) Unlike professional journalists in the mainstream media, conservative talk show personalities don't have any sort of pressures to bother with fact-checking or curbing outright bias. Nor are they required to tell the truth as long as they don't commit slander or libel. Oh, and WHAT liberal media? http://mediamatters.org/items/200602140002
The Sunday-morning talk shows on ABC, CBS, and NBC are where the prevailing opinions are aired and tested, policymakers state their cases, and the left and right in American politics debate the pressing issues of the day on equal ground. Both sides have their say and face probing questions. Or so you would think. In fact, as this study reveals, conservative voices significantly outnumber progressive voices on the Sunday talk shows. Media Matters for America conducted a content analysis of ABC's This Week, CBS' Face the Nation, and NBC's Meet the Press, classifying each one of the nearly 7,000 guest appearances during President Bill Clinton's second term, President George W. Bush's first term, and the year 2005 as either Democrat, Republican, conservative, progressive, or neutral. The conclusion is clear: Republicans and conservatives have been offered more opportunities to appear on the Sunday shows - in some cases, dramatically so. Tell me, does this seem like a liberal bias to you? Edited by schrafinator, : No reason given.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 47 by ThingsChange, posted 10-06-2006 7:55 PM | | ThingsChange has not replied |
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