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Author | Topic: Elephants pass the self awareness mirror test | |||||||||||||||||||||||
ramoss Member (Idle past 643 days) Posts: 3228 Joined: |
From Home | The Scotsman
ELEPHANTS can recognise their own reflection, placing them in an elite group of self-aware animals which includes humans, great apes and dolphins.
US scientists made the discovery after standing three female elephants in front of an 8ft tall mirror. Eventually one elephant, named Happy, began using her trunk to repeatedly touch an 'X' painted on her forehead The mark could only be seen in the mirror and Happy ignored another invisible mark on her head proving she was not reacting to smell and touch. Only highly intelligent animals with strong social networks are capable of mirror self-recognition. Previously among non-human animals the trait has only been shown to exist in great apes and bottlenose dolphins. Study leader Joshua Plotnik, of Emory University, Georgia, said: "The social complexity of the elephant, its well-known altruistic behaviour and, of course, its huge brain, made the elephant a logical candidate species for testing in front of a mirror." Less than half of chimpanzees tested the same way pass.
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macaroniandcheese  Suspended Member (Idle past 3959 days) Posts: 4258 Joined: |
Less than half of couldn't help myself. this is very interesting. they also have cemetaries.isn't it funny that we're killing all the smartest animals in the world? Edited by Adminnemooseus, : Whited out off-topic politically related material. Do not respond to that material (unless you're looking for a suspension).
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kuresu Member (Idle past 2544 days) Posts: 2544 From: boulder, colorado Joined: |
we just can't stand the competition, apparently.
abe:funny, and at the same time, really quite saddening Edited by kuresu, : No reason given. Want to help give back to the world community? Did you know that your computer can help? Join the newest TeamEvC Climate Modelling to help improve climate predictions for a better tomorrow.
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Taz Member (Idle past 3322 days) Posts: 5069 From: Zerus Joined: |
brennakimi writes:
We're not just killing the smart animal; we're killing just about every animal we can kill. It just happens that the smart animal are also some of the animal that can't reproduce fast enough to replace lost members. For example, just about every carnivore in the great american west go after the salmon. Yet they are not in any danger of being put on the endangered species list. Same thing homosapien sapiens. If we nuke every homosapien population center on earth tomorrow, we still wouldn't be able to wipe out this parasitic organism.
isn't it funny that we're killing all the smartest animals in the world?
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NewYorkCityBoy Inactive Member |
five nukes would destroy the world. There would actually be no life left on Earth. There would be no earth.
OFF TOPIC - Please Do Not Respond to this message or continue in this vein. AdminPD Edited by AdminPD, : Warning
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AdminPhat Inactive Member |
Before we drift too far down the river, lets get back to the elephants.
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NewYorkCityBoy Inactive Member |
Yeah ive always thought that elephants are smart. They can paint,communicate over miles, and they have big brains. But i dont see how being able to recognize yourself in a mirror makes you smart?
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AnswersInGenitals Member (Idle past 182 days) Posts: 673 Joined: |
If you put a camera in front of a mirror and trigger the shutter so that it gets an 'imprint' of itself, either as a latent image on film or as a charge distribution on a digital camera's memory, can it be said that the camera is self aware? If not, how does it differ from the elephant or a (non-blind) human?
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Taz Member (Idle past 3322 days) Posts: 5069 From: Zerus Joined: |
NYCB writes:
In the 50's dozens of nukes were tested by American elephants. The Soviet elephants also tested many nukes. Even though many elephants around the world, including the elephants that performed the tests, suffered radiation sickness from these nuclear tests, the elephants still live today. five nukes would destroy the world. It would actually take many thousands of nukes to kill off all the elephants and other living creatures on Earth.
OFF TOPIC - Please Do Not Respond to this message or continue in this vein. AdminPD Edited by gasby, : No reason given. Edited by gasby, : No reason given. Edited by AdminPD, : Warning Place yourself on the map at http://www.frappr.com/evc The thread about this map can be found here.
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Phalanx Member (Idle past 5743 days) Posts: 31 From: Old Bridge, NJ, US Joined: |
If you put a camera in front of a mirror and trigger the shutter so that it gets an 'imprint' of itself, either as a latent image on film or as a charge distribution on a digital camera's memory, can it be said that the camera is self aware? If not, how does it differ from the elephant or a (non-blind) human? The idea isn't that the brain is recieving the image that the elephant sees, it's how the elephant's brain interprets what it's seeing. As the article says, the elephant feels for the spot that it can't see without use of the mirror. So, while your camera couldn't tell you it's seeing itself, an elephant could. If you were being sarcastic, disregard this. Edited by Phalanx, : Edited for misspelling And the Ignorant shall fall to the Squirrels - Chip 2:54
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AnswersInGenitals Member (Idle past 182 days) Posts: 673 Joined: |
Anyone who has followed my posts knows that I am never sarcastic (unless this statement is itself sarcastic).
I am curious about what are the mechanisms of self awareness and to what extent these can be emulated by machines. The camera taking its some sarcasown picture is perhaps one very modest start at exploring this question. Past the optical sensor and the storage device, it will need some sort of 'visual cortex' using pattern recognition to determine that that is itself (or something very similar) that it is taking a picture of. That seems to be the hardest part, since once it 'recognizes' itself in the image, any number of reactive behaviors can be programmed into it. In fact, auto focus and auto exposure (and even motion compensation), which are present in most currently available cameras, can be considered to be complex adaptive behaviors. But there us liberal scientist types go again, trying to blur the distinctions that make us human. (But, of course, you have no way of knowing if I am actually a human or just a sarcasmotron.) Regards, AnInGe Edited by AnswersInGenitals, : No reason given.
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Phalanx Member (Idle past 5743 days) Posts: 31 From: Old Bridge, NJ, US Joined: |
I suppose at that point, though, you're looking at nothing more than an automaton. I don't think the camera could be self aware if it lacks a self to begin with.
And the Ignorant shall fall to the Squirrels - Chip 2:54
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AnswersInGenitals Member (Idle past 182 days) Posts: 673 Joined: |
But that's the whole point. How do we know that elephants, chimps, and we are something more than 'automatons? What is 'self' if not just a word for those brain functions that we are not consiously aware of? Can you add any more difinitive discription to this 'self' that you seem to think distinguishes us from mechanical entities that display the same behavioral responses that we do? Please delay bringing up free will as long as possible. That just opens up a new can of worms that are being digested in a couple of other threads.
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Phalanx Member (Idle past 5743 days) Posts: 31 From: Old Bridge, NJ, US Joined: |
I suppose that describing 'self' is like describing 'life' it's ethereal, at best. I suppose that the only way to define self is the vaguest of definitions available:
self - that which knows, remembers, desires, suffers, etc., as contrasted with that known, remembered, etc. - http://www.dictionary.com
As I said, this definition is nothing more than a guideline, and probably rife with holes, but, it seems work, for me at least. And the Ignorant shall fall to the Squirrels - Chip 2:54
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NewYorkCityBoy Inactive Member |
i meant 5 nukes blowing up at the same time would destroy the Earth
OFF TOPIC - Please Do Not Respond to this message or continue in this vein. AdminPD Edited by AdminPD, : Warning
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