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Junior Member (Idle past 6059 days) Posts: 21 From: Brownsburg, Indiana, USA Joined: |
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Author | Topic: Old Laws Still Valid? | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||
jaywill Member (Idle past 1972 days) Posts: 4519 From: VA USA Joined: |
The contemporary view by many biblical scholars (ie Christians) is that they doubt .... ... that Matthew wrote Matthew, that Luke wrote Luke, that Jeremiah wrote Jeremiah, that Isaiah wrote Isaiah, that John wrote John, that Zechariah wrote Zechariah .... etc. Edited by jaywill, : No reason given. Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.
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sidelined Member (Idle past 5939 days) Posts: 3435 From: Edmonton Alberta Canada Joined: |
jaywill
And the Magna Carter was Bullwinkle's Phd thesis Excellent comeback jaywill. A masterful stroke of refuting an offered assertion with a dynamically devastating attack full of substance and relevant evidence to humble jar with its blistering logic and succinct reasoning. How is Rocky these days?
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jaywill Member (Idle past 1972 days) Posts: 4519 From: VA USA Joined: |
Thanks.
Rocky's ok. Very busy running a deli downtown. Oh, that was Magna Carta,
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John 10:10 Member (Idle past 3026 days) Posts: 766 From: Mt Juliet / TN / USA Joined: |
The Old Covenant laws were given by God to lead us to the New Covenant salvation relationship that is in Christ Jesus.
Yes, God's saving grace is offered to ALL - John 3:16. Jesus says it is offered to ALL so that the world MIGHT be saved through Him - John 3:17. But if God's saving grace is rejected, one has been judged already because he chose not to believe in the only begotten Son of God - John 3:18. Maybe you think this judgment somehow means eventual salvation for unbelievers, but Rev 20:15 says differently. Perhaps someday you will understand the message. Edited by John 10:10, : Added comment The evil one comes to steal, kill and destroy; but I Jesus have come that you might have eternal Life and have eternal Life more abundantly - John 10:10
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ringo Member (Idle past 443 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Jon 10:10 writes: ... one has been judged already because he chose not to believe in the only begotten Son of God But what does it mean to "believe" in Him? Surely believing that He existed is trivial. Surely believing that He wandered around the Middle East performing miracles is trivial. Surely believing that He was crucified, died and rose on the third day is trivial. Surely believing in Him means believing in the message He brought. With reference to the law, His message was:
quote: Believing in Him means loving God by loving your neighbour as yourself. All other professions of belief are worthless in the eyes of the law. Help scientific research in your spare time. No cost. No obligation. Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC
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jar Member (Idle past 425 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Well, you back harping on salvation again like it was something important or related to this thread or topic.
The topic is, "Old Laws Still Valid?" We are now reaching the end of this thread. Way back in Message 96 I listed some of the Old Laws. If you would like to support the position that they are still valid then fine, present your best case. We realize that you believe someone must believe in Jesus to be saved. That too is fine. If you want to believe that, no problem. Frankly, it makes the God that you worship nothing more than some bling-bling pimp daddy that gets pissed if She is dissed, but if that is all you need to satisfy your God Itch, then it works for you. I simply cannot imagine that the GOD who created the universe, who created all the laws of science and the system of evolution, is as tiny and picayune as the goddlet you present. But if your little goddlet works for you, may you enjoy your creation. Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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John 10:10 Member (Idle past 3026 days) Posts: 766 From: Mt Juliet / TN / USA Joined: |
But what does it mean to "believe" in Him? It means what John says in John 1:12-13,
"But as many as received Him (the Lord Jesus), to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name, who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God." Those that are born of God are "born again" by God's Spirit as Jesus declares in John 3:3-7, thus entering into the kingdom of God. Without being "born again" and receiving the gift of God's Spirit, one cannot understand the message, let alone obey the message. Believing that the Lord Jesus was crucified, died for our sins and rose on the third day is NOT trivial. It is the essence of the Gospel of Christ. The Lord now sits at the right hand of the Father (Acts 2:33). Do you believe this as well? The evil one comes to steal, kill and destroy; but I Jesus have come that you might have eternal Life and have eternal Life more abundantly - John 10:10
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ringo Member (Idle past 443 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
John 10:10 writes: "But as many as received Him (the Lord Jesus), to them He gave the right to become children of God...." But what does it mean to "receive" Him, if not to receive the message that He brought?
Those that are born of God are "born again".... But what does it mean to be "born again", if not to start over, to make a new beginning, a new life as He told us to live?
... one cannot understand the message, let alone obey the message. But the message is very simple: Love God and love thy neighbour as thyself. The living of the message isn't always easy, but the understanding of it is very simple. You're ignoring what Jesus Himself said about the law: The letter of the law, such as "Thou shalt not eat shrimp," is not valid unless it effects your neighbour. Today, for example, the law might be, "Thou shalt not send peanut butter to school in thy children's lunches," because your child's lunch might kill your neighbour's child. It's all relative. Help scientific research in your spare time. No cost. No obligation. Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC
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iceage  Suspended Member (Idle past 5945 days) Posts: 1024 From: Pacific Northwest Joined: |
Your reply is difficult to understand, but I will try.
scottness writes: When we send our soldiers to battle, it is not to rape and commit genocide. But if they do these things, is their sin on our hands or their own? I am beginning to think you have not read the OT much. I have discovered that to be the case with many Christians. Don't they teach this stuff in Sunday school?
Numbers 31:17-18 writes: Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him. But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves. Deuteronomy 20:10-14 writes: As you approach a town to attack it, first offer its people terms for peace. If they accept your terms and open the gates to you, then all the people inside will serve you in forced labor. But if they refuse to make peace and prepare to fight, you must attack the town. When the LORD your God hands it over to you, kill every man in the town. But you may keep for yourselves all the women, children, livestock, and other plunder. You may enjoy the spoils of your enemies that the LORD your God has given you. Do we send our soldiers to battle with such guidelines?
scottness writes: You make a mockery of reason. And to what avail? What reason am I mocking? Your link and white rabbit add to the discussion just how?
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arachnophilia Member (Idle past 1374 days) Posts: 9069 From: god's waiting room Joined: |
Heh heh .... that would be a mistake if one assumes the bible to godly inspired and that god is full of mercy and love and joy and... anyone who makes either assumption has not read the bible, or else has not understood it.
But I am sure your input will sit well with Scottness and Jaywill. I will repeat it so it does not get lost.
arachnophilia writes: clearly, in the bible, we have at least one portrayal of god commanding (or forcing) someone to do evil, and several statements from god that he is responsible for evil. oh no, they never like that sort of thing. they'd rather god be an automaton, some invisible superman that also lacks free will and intelligence. a big black box they can get nice, easy, consistent answers from. i, and others, have made this point here time and time again: the bible does not portray god so simply, or as one sided as they think. god does things and says he will do things that he himself calls evil. god calls his own past actions evil, and occasionally says that he regrets them. we document this easily with verses and entire passages from the bible, and somehow they manage to continue contending that god is wholely good and can do no wrong, and that the bible is the word of god, and that god is infallible. but if god says in the bible that he did evil, or made a mistake, clearly (at least) one of those contentions must be wrong.
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jaywill Member (Idle past 1972 days) Posts: 4519 From: VA USA Joined: |
Hi John10:10. I have received Him. I know what you're talking about. Single best decision I have ever made in my entire life.
Consider that some of these posters count it sport to harden theirs hearts to the truth of the gospel. Allow them their little season of fun. I put the Scripture to music and recently finished a version of JOhn 10:10. If you'd like to have a CD of Scripture songs email me atjjwilmore@netscape.net Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.
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ringo Member (Idle past 443 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
jaywill writes: I have received Him. Then you must have received His message. You must be adept at loving your neighbour as yourself - for example, not snubbing him when he talks to you. You must understand that that is the fulfillment of the law. Help scientific research in your spare time. No cost. No obligation. Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC
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John 10:10 Member (Idle past 3026 days) Posts: 766 From: Mt Juliet / TN / USA Joined: |
You ask, "But what does it mean to "receive" Him, if not to receive the message that He brought?"
The gift of eternal life that Jesus gives is found first in the Person of the Lord Jesus Christ. Then you can move on to the message the Lord gives. You ask, "But what does it mean to be "born again", if not to start over, to make a new beginning, a new life as He told us to live?" Yes, it means precisely that. Nicodemus asked the same question of Jesus on John 3:4. Jesus replied, "Unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God (John 3:5). Those who concentrate only on the message without first entering into the new covenant "born again" relationship with Jesus have missed the saving Gospel of Christ. 2 Cor 3:6 "who also made us adequate as servants of a new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life." Blessings The evil one comes to steal, kill and destroy; but I Jesus have come that you might have eternal Life and have eternal Life more abundantly - John 10:10
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jaywill Member (Idle past 1972 days) Posts: 4519 From: VA USA Joined: |
John 10:10, Just to inform you, I don't read or respond to posts by Ringo.
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anastasia Member (Idle past 5983 days) Posts: 1857 From: Bucks County, PA Joined: |
John10:10 writes: "But as many as received Him (the Lord Jesus), to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name, who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God." I would never try to trivialize belief in Jesus walking around the earth or being crucified or any of it, but, honestly there are millions of people who never heard of Him let alone had enough info to believe in Him. That is kind of an unfair predicament, isn't it? I also do not take a pluralistic view of religion BUT I believe that ALL men have the opportunity to believe in the Message of God and to make good choices through the gift of reason which will lead them to salvation.
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