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Author Topic:   Are we born to an evolutionary purpose?
Neutralmind
Member (Idle past 6153 days)
Posts: 183
From: Finland
Joined: 06-08-2006


Message 1 of 32 (387125)
02-26-2007 12:49 PM


In the thread "Homosexuality and Natural Selection" http://EvC Forum: Homosexuality and Natural Selection. -->EvC Forum: Homosexuality and Natural Selection. ( yes I know it's old) many evo's were defending a view that gay people are maybe born gay to play an "evolutionary" role to society. They help their sister and family more than a straight guy and so ensure their genes are passed on.
refrerence:
kuresu Message 26
as you can guess--wrong. the ToE is dependent on getting your genes passed on. your statement discludes (i may have made that up?) all the asexually reproducing organims. and if you don't have children, but you're sister or brother does, what do you generally do? you help your sister/brother with raising them--they do have a good chunck of the same genes you do--they are family.
Okay, let's suppose this is true. What other "types" of human could we categorize to fit into this by applying the same logic?
Let's say a murderer. Maybe he's just killing people so there are not so many hostile "species" left to harm his family (therefore his genes will get passed on more likely)?
A rapist, maybe he's just increasing his chances of passing on his genes?
A musician, musicians are known to to make people happier, a happy family is more likely to not kill each other and are also known to be more sexually active.
A golf player, he's making a lot of money to ensure his own and familys' well being, therefore his genes are more likely to be passed on.
My point is (if you didn't get it), anything can be ascribed to having an evolutionary purpose, but it just may not be that. Or can it?
Is everything we do related to passing on our genes?
Are we born to a certain evolutionary purpose ex. gay people helping they're family to increase the odds of they're genes getting passed on?
Or did I just confuse something?
PS. I hope my evc idol NJ will pay a visit here

Replies to this message:
 Message 2 by Chiroptera, posted 02-26-2007 1:02 PM Neutralmind has not replied
 Message 3 by Modulous, posted 02-26-2007 1:04 PM Neutralmind has replied
 Message 4 by anastasia, posted 02-26-2007 1:42 PM Neutralmind has replied

  
Neutralmind
Member (Idle past 6153 days)
Posts: 183
From: Finland
Joined: 06-08-2006


Message 5 of 32 (387160)
02-26-2007 4:02 PM
Reply to: Message 3 by Modulous
02-26-2007 1:04 PM


Modulous
Indeed. The point that kuresu and others (incl myself) that some things which seem on the face of it to run counter to the concept of selfish genes or 'survival of the fittest' (homosexuals would seem to pass on less genes than heterosexuals, on average) can still survive because of kin with similar genes who do reproduce more.
They can or may survive, but wouldn't heterosexual men have a better chance of survival anyway?
If we assume now for the sake of argument, that people are born gay or straight. Why would gay guys even be born if there is so much less chance that they're genes will get passed on? What evolutionary advantage (considering passing on genes) do gay men have over straight? Why/how would natural selection even come/end up with that?
Edited by Neutralmind, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by Modulous, posted 02-26-2007 1:04 PM Modulous has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 6 by Chiroptera, posted 02-26-2007 4:09 PM Neutralmind has replied
 Message 11 by Modulous, posted 02-26-2007 8:23 PM Neutralmind has not replied
 Message 16 by Larni, posted 02-27-2007 5:48 AM Neutralmind has not replied

  
Neutralmind
Member (Idle past 6153 days)
Posts: 183
From: Finland
Joined: 06-08-2006


Message 7 of 32 (387163)
02-26-2007 4:26 PM
Reply to: Message 4 by anastasia
02-26-2007 1:42 PM


anastasia
All of the catgories which you have mentioned: golfers; musicians; murderers; rapists; are people who have chosen to be what they are in some capacity. The only exception is homosexuals, and they still have a choice about whether or not to practice homosexuality.
How do you know people aren't born murderers, rapists, etc. ? They also have a choice not to practice their "trait".

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4 by anastasia, posted 02-26-2007 1:42 PM anastasia has replied

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 Message 9 by anastasia, posted 02-26-2007 5:37 PM Neutralmind has not replied

  
Neutralmind
Member (Idle past 6153 days)
Posts: 183
From: Finland
Joined: 06-08-2006


Message 8 of 32 (387164)
02-26-2007 4:31 PM
Reply to: Message 6 by Chiroptera
02-26-2007 4:09 PM


Those are all possibilities. But we could come up with the same sort of reasoning for almost any kind of human.
No, I will not define kinds

This message is a reply to:
 Message 6 by Chiroptera, posted 02-26-2007 4:09 PM Chiroptera has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 10 by Chiroptera, posted 02-26-2007 7:23 PM Neutralmind has not replied

  
Neutralmind
Member (Idle past 6153 days)
Posts: 183
From: Finland
Joined: 06-08-2006


Message 19 of 32 (387248)
02-27-2007 11:31 AM
Reply to: Message 15 by Chiroptera
02-26-2007 9:11 PM


Chiroptera
Well, I don't agree that these speculations are comparable to making evolution "intelligent". I do agree, though, that a lot of the speculation about the biological basis for human behavior is silly and nonproductive.
Thank you, this is the point I think I was getting at.
Any sort of behavior can be ascribed to having some evolutionary benefit if you think about it. That in a way also means, any sort of behavior can be ascribed no meaning. It's just speculation as far as I see it.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 15 by Chiroptera, posted 02-26-2007 9:11 PM Chiroptera has not replied

  
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