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Author | Topic: God caused or uncaused? | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Rob  Suspended Member (Idle past 5877 days) Posts: 2297 Joined: |
jar:
I'm not sure where you get your information, likely from Biblical Creationist sites Richard Lewontin fully supports the TOE and you can find one of his responses to the many attempts by the Biblical Christians to misrepresent his position I know that he does jar... and that is why it is so effective for those able to comprehend logic. At least he is honest.
We take the side of science in spite of the patent absurdity of some of its constructs, in spite of its failure to fulfill many of its extravagant promises of health and life, in spite of the tolerance of the scientific community for unsubstantiated just-so stories, because we have a prior commitment, a commitment to materialism. It is not that the methods and institutions of science somehow compel us to accept a material explanation of the phenomenal world, but, on the contrary, that we are forced by our a priori adherence to material causes to create an apparatus of investigation and a set of concepts that produce material explanations, no matter how counter-intuitive, no matter how mystifying to the uninitiated. Moreover, that materialism is an absolute, for we cannot allow a Divine Foot in the door. (Richard Lewontin "Billions and Billions of Demons") jar: The topic is "God caused or uncaused?" Evolution is totally irrelevant to that question. Why don't you just let the subject develop? I will get to how this relates to reality being caused or uncaused soon enough... You're going to love it... Edited by Rob, : No reason given.
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jar Member (Idle past 422 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Don't you ever get tired of misrepresentation and slight of hand games?
You likely got that from AIG or one of the other nonsense Biblical Creationism sites and it is just another example of taking things out of context, of trying to misdirect attention while the Biblical Christian palms the pea.
Here is a link that includes the quote in context. So far all you have presented has been smoke and mirrors, misrepresentation, slight of hand and other con man tactics.
Why don't you just let the subject develop? I will get to how this relates to reality being caused or uncaused soon enough... You're going to love it... Well it is irrelevant whether reality is caused or uncaused because reality is not the topic. In case you missed it, the topic happens to be "God caused or uncaused?" and Evolution is totally unrelated to that. Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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Rob  Suspended Member (Idle past 5877 days) Posts: 2297 Joined: |
Omnivorous:
How about the inheritance of characteristics? Or the occurrence of mutations? Adaptation to a dying environment and ecosystem? That proves devolution, not evolution. How do you explain the DNA they must have to do these things in the first place?
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Omnivorous Member Posts: 3991 From: Adirondackia Joined: Member Rating: 6.9 |
Folks who have valid points to make don't change the subject.
Don't Gish Gallop off into the sunset. Real things always push back. -William James Save lives! Click here!Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC! ---------------------------------------
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Omnivorous Member Posts: 3991 From: Adirondackia Joined: Member Rating: 6.9 |
Ducking and weaving, again: the inheritance of characteristics, mutations, and natural selection are evolutionary facts.
You asked for some. You got some. Admit they are facts, and then we can discuss another subject. Real things always push back. -William James Save lives! Click here!Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC! ---------------------------------------
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Rob  Suspended Member (Idle past 5877 days) Posts: 2297 Joined: |
jar:
Don't you ever get tired of misrepresentation and slight of hand games? Logical fallacy: Complex question. Edited by Rob, : No reason given.
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Omnivorous Member Posts: 3991 From: Adirondackia Joined: Member Rating: 6.9 |
Rob writes: Adaptation to a dying environment and ecosystem? That proves devolution, not evolution. Devolution? No such critter. Organisms adapt to a changed environment. Nonetheless, while you're at it, could you list some devolutionary facts? Real things always push back. -William James Save lives! Click here!Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC! ---------------------------------------
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Rob  Suspended Member (Idle past 5877 days) Posts: 2297 Joined: |
Admit they are facts, and then we can discuss another subject. I didn't deny that they are facts. They are the evidence that is actually a result of good empericism. They are the evidence that we all interpret. They show change in species. Natural selection is a reality. I already know that. But is it devolution or evolution? Good science shows... that the 2nd law of thermodynamics is also a fact. And one of the most basic in all science. There is a need for a cell to convert raw energy into usable biological energy and that creates an insurmountable obstacle. We must assume the existence of the very systems of energy translation, as a means of constructing the system. The second law is an obstacle that runs counter to evolutionary theory entirely, but is matched by the creator solution at the philosophical level. The universe was created whole and good, and is now in the process of entropy.
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Rob  Suspended Member (Idle past 5877 days) Posts: 2297 Joined: |
omnivorous:
Nonetheless, while you're at it, could you list some devolutionary facts? Entropy.
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Rob  Suspended Member (Idle past 5877 days) Posts: 2297 Joined: |
omnivorous:
Devolution? No such critter. Organisms adapt to a changed environment. Fallen. Fallen are we creatures I'm afraid. The moon is lodsing it's orbit. The sun is burning out. ect... It is a consistent pattern throughout nature Except! when it comes to evolutinary theory. TOE has some huge coherence isssues with basic physical law.
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Omnivorous Member Posts: 3991 From: Adirondackia Joined: Member Rating: 6.9 |
Rob writes: Good science shows... that the 2nd law of thermodynamics is also a fact. And one of the most basic in all science. There is a need for a cell to convert raw energy into usable biological energy and that creates an insurmountable obstacle. We must assume the existence of the very systems of energy translation, as a means of constructing the system. The second law is an obstacle that runs counter to evolutionary theory entirely, but is matched by the creator solution at the philosophical level. The universe was created whole and good, and is now in the process of entropy. That's really tired. I see that you do not understand the 2nd law of thermodynamics. The universe is just chock full of local areas of both increasing entropy and decreasing entropy. Further, you again assume that evolution requires a progression to greater organization/complexity. That is not so: evolution merely describes the process by which generations of organisms over time adapt to a changing environment. More complex is not better; simpler is not bad. To live and reproduce is good. Questions? Edited by Omnivorous, : No reason given. Real things always push back. -William James Save lives! Click here!Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC! ---------------------------------------
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Rob  Suspended Member (Idle past 5877 days) Posts: 2297 Joined: |
Omnivorous:
Abe: Oh, and fewer faster rabbits get caught. Why are you calling them rabbits? Aren't they a new species?
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jar Member (Idle past 422 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
It might have been a complex question were it not for the preceding messages where it was demonstrated exactly where and how you were misrepresenting and playing slight of hand games.
The problem is that instead of addressing the topic, your own topic, you dance around presenting irrelevant nonsense and unimportant fantasy. Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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Rob  Suspended Member (Idle past 5877 days) Posts: 2297 Joined: |
Omnivorous:
Further, you again assume that evolution requires a progression to greater organization/complexity. That is not so: evolution merely describes the process by which generations of organisms over time adapt to a changing environment. Thank you. A dying environment where the complex and simple alike lived together as a whole and complete family.
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Rob  Suspended Member (Idle past 5877 days) Posts: 2297 Joined: |
Omnivorous:
That's really tired. I see that you do not understand the 2nd law of thermodynamics. Oh but I do Omnivorous... Thermodynamic Arguments for Creation Near the end, is the information on raw energy and snowflakes etc...
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