ZeitGeist

The burden of proof lies with the person making the claim. I have every conceivable right to question the veracity of your claim, since the claims that you are making go against the prevailing historical facts.I will go so far to say that variant use of torture stakes, as crucifixes were commonly known as back then, may have been seen contemporaneously by the Medo-Persian empire.Your claim is that the ancient Egyptians invented the crucifix, is it not? If so, you are going to have to provide something that would lend any credence to the claim.The over-arching scheme here though, lets not forget, is that you are saying that the Jesus account is simply a variation of different accounts from all over the world from various times-- in particular, Horus. As Arach has already shared, the supposed facts concerning Horus on the movie are inaccurate.

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"It is better to shun the bait, than struggle in the snare." -Ravi Zacharias

You are completely wrong about what you think I think.The only person who emphasized Horus was Arach..he didn't mention any of the other examples. And since he only used Horus, I don't understand why he didn't comment about the Egyptian book of the dead and the derivation of the ten commandments from it.Lastly, it was anarch who made the original claim that 'crucifixion was a Roman invention'...which is historically false....and to end your rediculous claims otherwise I will do some hard research tonight and post it. I suggest you do the same.

One small correction: The origins of Crucifixtion are not that well known. Crucifixion was definitely used by the Greeks, there are reports of Pirates being crucified in Athens. Some people claim the Egyptians used a method of execution similar to crucifixion using trees. The Quran contains references to Pharaoh crucifying people.

due to poor understanding of how the earth rotates when the calendar was created, and the fact that the year is 365.25 days long, the calendar has shifted slightly over time.but that's sort of also the point too -- they're delibrately shifting around dates. but the christmas-solstice connection is fairly well established as intentional and a later artifact of the church. ...let me get back to you on that one. i've seen it elsewhere, but i had always understood it as saturnalia. the sol invicta themes seem more of a connection, indeed -- but that's largely in regard to mithras. who is probably worth discussing here at some length.mithras was a similar idea, at a similar time. it's hard to say what came first, and who influenced whom. because the date was established much later -- not the year christ was born. originally, the only christian celebration took place alongside passover. indeed. but i hadn't clarified the calendar differences -- another point against the movie, really.

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What did you get out of it? So you're a thief? I'm just messin' with you man. Obviously that is the implication that the film makers are tacitly making. We were just dumb lemmings ambling along in our simple world, totally buying in to the lies of the Establishment until they rescued us.Its kind of condescending really. As a Christian, no one is more irritated at baby Xtians that seem to have no real understanding of the gospel, and only came to their conclusions based on years of indoctrination. But that is not to say that all Christians never gave thought to how they've come to believe.If the information they were presenting were accurate, even in part, I would have appreciated it more. But now you have Arach, as well as a few others who are not in any sense of the word Christian saying the whole thing was caca. Around these parts, that is saying a lot.

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"It is better to shun the bait, than struggle in the snare." -Ravi Zacharias

you know. you make a great post and then you go and say something like that.oh well. baby steps, i guess.

ok, i could be wrong on this of course. it's very possible that the romans stole crucifixion from the greeks. you know, just like everything else in their society that's sort of the important point. is there any evidence to support that? if not, it's still sort of moot -- horus was not executed. this all comes about from my addition of something like "and certainly not by a roman method of execution."

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frankly, because i hadn't gotten there. i'll re-post attis and krishna after this. and if there's enough interest, i'll spend the time to do some proper research on mithras and dionysus. i admittedly don't know much about mithras, and would genuinely be interested and honest about it if it seems mithraism was an influence on christianity. i've been known to point out the cross-cultural influences on judaism, so i don't want you think my points are drawn from bias. the problem is that so much of the discussion of mithraism and christianity is nothing but pure and unadulterated bias. the defenders of christianity post nothing bu denialism and apologetics. the proponents post nothing but conspiracy theories. the two extremes, frankly, do not help one find the accurate truth that is probably somewhere in between. again, because i hadn't gotten there. those initial set of points were just from the breif run-down where the narrator lists a bunch of points in a row, powerpoint style. for that first post, we're talking less than 2 minutes of actual content -- and that's every claim made in that time.i am nothing if not thorough in my rebuttals. "arach" like the spiders. i guess we're even lol. please feel free to post that. it's very possible my impression was false. mr jack suggest the greeks did it too, which would not be surprising. the question is, "did the egyptians?" i don't know, but i have never heard anywhere that they did. and the more important question is "does it appear in the horus myth(s)?" and the answer to that one -- the claim the video makes -- is no.

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Here's something I found about Crucifixion:http://www.joezias.com/CrucifixionAntiquity.htmlCrucifixion was certainly NOT a Roman invention. I also looked up the Egyptian book of the dead and its amazing the similarities between it and the Bible. You should read the raw version of it for ultimate factuality.I'm going to do more research about the other guys...Attis/Dionysus/Mithra.

Alexander the Great:* had portents associated with his birth and death
* suffered from epilepsy
* was bisexual
* claimed divine ancestry
* owned a horse with vestigial toes
* was a great general
* founded an empire
* visited Egypt
* was murdered by his colleaguesTherefore, Julius Caesar is a myth.

Same with Ralph Kramden and Fred Flintstone.

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“Faith moves mountains, but only knowledge moves them to the right place”
-- Joseph Goebbels
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Well, there's this guy I read about in some old books.* He lived a life of poverty
* He went about preaching about morality
* He said that God was perfect
* He taught that we should return good for evil
* He taught that there would be a reckoning in the afterlife
* He punctured the wise men of his time with sarcastic questioning
* He liked to illustrate his ideas with stories about daily life
* His statements were often gnomic in form
* He gathered disciples around him
* He is said to have "loved" a male disciple ...
* ... but it was entirely Platonic.
* He preached submission to the secular authorities
* He was tried for blasphemy
* His behavior at his trial bordered on the suicidal
* He was condemned by his countrymen
* He was executed
* His last words were an invocation to a deity
* The surviving testaments of his opinions are not consistent
* His message was distorted by his followers after his deathHe's so like the "mythical Jesus" that I guess we have to conclude ...... that Socrates did not exist.

Woah, how did this get so popular...? Okay I am going to read all of this, then come back and discuss. Because there is some stuff I want to go over about Zeitgeist, I just have no time!

So are you implying that Jesus Christ was a real person and in fact 'the son of God' whatever that is?If that's the case, please explain to me what Christian symbolism or the stories mean to you.

Answer my question Dr Adequate...do you have proof fro jesus' existance?
Please present evidence so I can at least not waste my time typing.