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ZeitGeist

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Author Topic:   ZeitGeist
jar
Member (Idle past 425 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004

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Message 84 of 185 (429711)
10-21-2007 1:04 PM 		Reply to: Message 83 by Brian
10-21-2007 12:46 PM

on the historical Jesus.
I think Jar is the only 'Christian' I have met whose faith doesn't depend on an historical Jesus.
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Kinda true. The club we call Christianity is based on an assumption that there was a historical individual Jesus and that that individual likely influenced a lot of people.
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To that extent, to belong to the club "Christian" you must at least believe that Jesus did exist and that Jesus is actually pretty much who the stories claim he was.
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What I have said though, is even if the stories are nothing more than tales told round the campfire, the lessons and message contained in them are still valid.
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If it were proven that the character "Jesus" never really existed, was totally a creation of fiction, then the Club would need to take a look at some of its bylaws. That would not necessarily mean Christianity would cease to exist as there are many examples of clubs and organizations based on fictional characters, from Trekkies to The Baker Street Irregulars.
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What I have pointed out though, many times here at EvC, is that even if Jesus historical existence could be proven, even if we found the expense report entry for five loaves and two fishies, it would not address the question of Jesus Divinity.
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Aslan is not a Tame Lion
This message is a reply to:
 Message 83 by Brian, posted 10-21-2007 12:46 PM Brian has not replied
Replies to this message:
 Message 109 by Phat, posted 10-21-2007 4:53 PM jar has replied
  
jar
Member (Idle past 425 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004

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Message 104 of 185 (429747)
10-21-2007 4:22 PM 		Reply to: Message 98 by Hyroglyphx
10-21-2007 4:04 PM

Re: JC Did Not Exist!
Babylonian Talmud: (33 AD) This is the actual recording by the very men that ordered the execution of Jesus. *Take note of His charge*
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“On the eve of the Passover, Yeshu was hanged. For forty days before the execution took place, a herald went forth and cried, ”He is going forth to be stoned because he practiced sorcery and enticed Israel to apostasy. Any one who can say anything on his behalf, let him come forward and plead on his behalf. But since nothing was brought forward in his favor he was hanged on the eve of the Passover.
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” Therefore, we see that Jesus was crucified for supposedly leading others away from the Law and for sorcery. This corroborates the gospels magnificently, as we see extra-biblical evidence of His miracles and of His teachings, even though He did NOT teach against the Law.
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I'm sorry but that is just another example of the total and continual misrepresentation of Biblical Christians as well as the Willful Ignorance of anyone who repeats such nonsense.
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Go and actually study the Talmud and you will see that what the apologetics have quotemined out of context is simply a hypothetical as opposed to historical incident and is concerned with the legal requirements for capital punishment.
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Why do the Biblical Christian Apologetics continue to use false assertions and misrepresentation and why doesn't the vast body of Christians stand up and point out the total moral bankruptcy of the vast majority of Christian Apologists and so called Biblical Christians?
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Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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 Message 98 by Hyroglyphx, posted 10-21-2007 4:04 PM Hyroglyphx has not replied
  
jar
Member (Idle past 425 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004

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Message 110 of 185 (429757)
10-21-2007 4:56 PM 		Reply to: Message 109 by Phat
10-21-2007 4:53 PM

Re: on the historical Jesus.
My question would be whether the whole idea of God communing with humanity originated from God directly influencing humanity or whether the idea originated from within humanity itself.
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It could only originate from humanity. There is no other option.
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The issue of whether Jesus was divine while on earth or human while on earth is irrelevant.
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Irrelevant to...?
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Aslan is not a Tame Lion
This message is a reply to:
 Message 109 by Phat, posted 10-21-2007 4:53 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied
  
jar
Member (Idle past 425 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004

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Message 114 of 185 (429763)
10-21-2007 5:27 PM 		Reply to: Message 113 by Phat
10-21-2007 5:25 PM

Re: on the historical Jesus.
We tend to disagree with Biblical Literalism because it makes us imperfect.
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Bullshit Phat. We disagree with Biblical Literalism because it is impossible to support and remain honest.
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Aslan is not a Tame Lion
This message is a reply to:
 Message 113 by Phat, posted 10-21-2007 5:25 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied
Replies to this message:
 Message 117 by Spektical, posted 10-21-2007 6:13 PM jar has not replied
  
jar
Member (Idle past 425 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004

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Message 150 of 185 (429968)
10-22-2007 8:30 PM 		Reply to: Message 149 by Dr Adequate
10-22-2007 8:20 PM

Re: JC Did Not Exist!
Do you suppose they got it right? I had the impression that you were a Protestant.
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Quite a few protestants attended and took part in the various Councils of Trent. In fact Luther was invited but by then he had stirred things up too much and so refused to take part, even though almost every thing he had questioned were not only addressed, but adopted.
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Aslan is not a Tame Lion
This message is a reply to:
 Message 149 by Dr Adequate, posted 10-22-2007 8:20 PM Dr Adequate has replied
Replies to this message:
 Message 153 by Dr Adequate, posted 10-23-2007 1:21 PM jar has not replied
  
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