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Author Topic:   How can you identify the word of God without critical assessment of God?
sinequanon
Member (Idle past 2894 days)
Posts: 331
Joined: 12-17-2007


Message 1 of 41 (445962)
01-04-2008 3:12 PM


If something were presented as the word of God, and if you accept that you should not question the word of God, how could you determine whether or not it is indeed the word of God?
There may be prophets and there may be false prophets. There may be holy books and there may be false books. How can you tell them apart without critically assessing them using your fallible mortal understanding?
An example could be choosing between the Oahspe and the Bible as a religious works. Could your choice as to which one of them is God's word be based on anything other than mortal assessment?
Edited by sinequanon, : Corrected spelling of oahspe. See Message 3 by arachnophilia for another example.

Replies to this message:
 Message 2 by tesla, posted 01-04-2008 3:20 PM sinequanon has replied
 Message 3 by arachnophilia, posted 01-04-2008 3:37 PM sinequanon has not replied
 Message 19 by nwr, posted 01-05-2008 1:40 PM sinequanon has replied
 Message 34 by purpledawn, posted 01-05-2008 4:57 PM sinequanon has replied

  
sinequanon
Member (Idle past 2894 days)
Posts: 331
Joined: 12-17-2007


Message 5 of 41 (445974)
01-04-2008 3:51 PM
Reply to: Message 2 by tesla
01-04-2008 3:20 PM


Re: how i do it
my belief: john 1:1
"in the beginning was the word, and the word was with God, and the word and God were one"
Is this your belief because it is stated in the Bible? Or is it a coincidence that your belief is in the Bible?
Is it your opinion that the Bible may not be the word of God, and may be erroneous, mistaken or misleading?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2 by tesla, posted 01-04-2008 3:20 PM tesla has replied

Replies to this message:
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sinequanon
Member (Idle past 2894 days)
Posts: 331
Joined: 12-17-2007


Message 9 of 41 (445991)
01-04-2008 4:11 PM
Reply to: Message 8 by tesla
01-04-2008 4:01 PM


Re: perhaps a more familiar example?
exactly. its only by choice that anyone believes anything.
But choice can be random, educated, inspired etc.
If it is random or educated, is it not fallible? Should the person then be aware there is a possibility that their God is false?

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Replies to this message:
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sinequanon
Member (Idle past 2894 days)
Posts: 331
Joined: 12-17-2007


Message 14 of 41 (446248)
01-05-2008 12:58 PM


Critical assessment of God
Here's an example I spotted...
DJBigz writes:
and if god was so awesome he should have realized back then that most of the information in the bible would be controversial. why would a god make something that could be proven wrong/inaccurate. for being all knowing most stuff in the bible seams it was just written by different men during that time making stuff up or elaborating the truth to make it seam magical.
http://EvC Forum: ignorance of creationism -->EvC Forum: ignorance of creationism
It assumes that a human can have the understanding to determine what God would or wouldn't do (Provided DJBigz is actually human ).
Edited by sinequanon, : No reason given.

Replies to this message:
 Message 15 by jar, posted 01-05-2008 1:01 PM sinequanon has replied

  
sinequanon
Member (Idle past 2894 days)
Posts: 331
Joined: 12-17-2007


Message 16 of 41 (446253)
01-05-2008 1:25 PM
Reply to: Message 15 by jar
01-05-2008 1:01 PM


Re: Critical assessment of God
What is wrong with that?
You'll have to start a new thread if you wish to discuss that.
Not sure I understand the issue. It seems all that says is "If God intended for the Bible to be some clear set of instructions, She failed."
Saying God failed is critically assessing God. I posted Message 14 as an example of this.
The OP asks how you could determine the word of God without critically assessing God.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 15 by jar, posted 01-05-2008 1:01 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 17 by jar, posted 01-05-2008 1:32 PM sinequanon has replied

  
sinequanon
Member (Idle past 2894 days)
Posts: 331
Joined: 12-17-2007


Message 18 of 41 (446255)
01-05-2008 1:40 PM
Reply to: Message 17 by jar
01-05-2008 1:32 PM


Re: Critical assessment of God
Your answer is a bit of an uneasy rigmarole. If I have deciphered it correctly I think two words could have sufficed: "I can't"?
To help you. Answers need only take the form:-
i) I, can't.
ii) I can, and explain how.

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 Message 17 by jar, posted 01-05-2008 1:32 PM jar has replied

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 Message 24 by jar, posted 01-05-2008 1:59 PM sinequanon has replied

  
sinequanon
Member (Idle past 2894 days)
Posts: 331
Joined: 12-17-2007


Message 20 of 41 (446257)
01-05-2008 1:45 PM
Reply to: Message 19 by nwr
01-05-2008 1:40 PM


Is that an "I can't" or an "I can"?
See Message 18

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sinequanon
Member (Idle past 2894 days)
Posts: 331
Joined: 12-17-2007


Message 25 of 41 (446278)
01-05-2008 2:47 PM
Reply to: Message 24 by jar
01-05-2008 1:59 PM


Re: Critical assessment of God
jar, "YOU" is personal. "How can YOU do it?", not "how can other people can do?".

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 Message 24 by jar, posted 01-05-2008 1:59 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
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sinequanon
Member (Idle past 2894 days)
Posts: 331
Joined: 12-17-2007


Message 27 of 41 (446283)
01-05-2008 2:52 PM
Reply to: Message 26 by jar
01-05-2008 2:48 PM


Re: Critical assessment of God
Thank you. One accurate post would have prevented the hassle.
I await responses from creationists.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 26 by jar, posted 01-05-2008 2:48 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 28 by jar, posted 01-05-2008 2:55 PM sinequanon has replied

  
sinequanon
Member (Idle past 2894 days)
Posts: 331
Joined: 12-17-2007


Message 29 of 41 (446303)
01-05-2008 3:24 PM
Reply to: Message 28 by jar
01-05-2008 2:55 PM


Re: Critical assessment of God
In finding the word of God, did you critically assess God?

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 Message 28 by jar, posted 01-05-2008 2:55 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 31 by jar, posted 01-05-2008 3:31 PM sinequanon has replied

  
sinequanon
Member (Idle past 2894 days)
Posts: 331
Joined: 12-17-2007


Message 32 of 41 (446309)
01-05-2008 3:38 PM
Reply to: Message 31 by jar
01-05-2008 3:31 PM


Re: Critical assessment of God
No explanation required. A yes or no answer is fine. I would not deem this one word off topic.
In finding the word of God, did you critically assess God?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 31 by jar, posted 01-05-2008 3:31 PM jar has replied

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sinequanon
Member (Idle past 2894 days)
Posts: 331
Joined: 12-17-2007


Message 35 of 41 (446324)
01-05-2008 5:09 PM
Reply to: Message 34 by purpledawn
01-05-2008 4:57 PM


Re: What is the Issue?
We aren't critically assessing God, we are assessing other humans and what they present as being from God.
I hear what you say, but I do not believe it is necessarily a case of either/or. It could be both. The OP happens to be asking about God.
Are you implying that, if you are satisfied with the human presenting the word of God, then you have identified the word of God?
Or are you implying that you cannot identify the word of God?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 34 by purpledawn, posted 01-05-2008 4:57 PM purpledawn has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 36 by purpledawn, posted 01-05-2008 5:58 PM sinequanon has replied

  
sinequanon
Member (Idle past 2894 days)
Posts: 331
Joined: 12-17-2007


Message 37 of 41 (446341)
01-05-2008 6:48 PM
Reply to: Message 36 by purpledawn
01-05-2008 5:58 PM


Re: What is the Issue?
How could it be both? How is one assessing God when authenticating a claim? Doubting that the words came from God is not the same as doubting God.
'It' is possible to BOTH assess God AND authenticate a claim. So, the fact that you are authenticating a claim does not imply you are not assessing God.
There is no assumption of any implication in the OP. It just asks the question.
For some that is all that is needed.
And for you, personally?
(Interestingly, you have done what nwr did in Message 23 and jar did in Message 24. I am starting to observe a certain pattern of coyness )

This message is a reply to:
 Message 36 by purpledawn, posted 01-05-2008 5:58 PM purpledawn has replied

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sinequanon
Member (Idle past 2894 days)
Posts: 331
Joined: 12-17-2007


Message 39 of 41 (447246)
01-08-2008 4:29 PM


I would like to hear from other people who "follow God's word".
So far, only jar has explained how he thinks it is possible without critical assessment of God.
He doesn't use this method himself. He is constantly critically assessing God.

Replies to this message:
 Message 40 by jar, posted 01-08-2008 4:33 PM sinequanon has replied

  
sinequanon
Member (Idle past 2894 days)
Posts: 331
Joined: 12-17-2007


Message 41 of 41 (447259)
01-08-2008 4:52 PM
Reply to: Message 40 by jar
01-08-2008 4:33 PM


Re: Let's try to get things straight.
Is there any point or substance to this thread?
Yes. I suspect people who respond will fall into two camps.
i) Those who critically assess God.
ii) Those who don't want to say.
It would be interesting to find someone who admits to have
iii) Found the word of God without critically assessing God.
(It could be they are all represented by ii))
No, jar posted a method that can be used. There is no question of whether or not it is possible, the method I posted can be used.
jar posted a method that can be used that may or may not be possible.

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 Message 40 by jar, posted 01-08-2008 4:33 PM jar has not replied

  
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