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Author Topic:   Descent of testicles.
nwr
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Posts: 6412
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 5 of 55 (446813)
01-07-2008 9:56 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by MartinV
01-07-2008 9:29 AM


2. Birds often have temperatures of 42o Celsius and do not have "cooling spermatozoa" problems either:
I'm not currently persuaded that this is very relevant. Birds have taken a different evolutionary path than mammals, and this could include other changes in the reproductive system that make bird sperm able to withstand higher temperatures.
I have not yet looked at the examples of mammals with internal testes.
I'm not sure what you mean by "evolutionary forces that stand above random mutation and natural selection" (particularly the "stand above" part of that). If that "stands above" is intended to refer to an intelligent designer, then your own observeration that "having testicles outside the body is a very dangerous place" would seem to argue against such intelligent design.

Let's end the political smears

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by MartinV, posted 01-07-2008 9:29 AM MartinV has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 11 by MartinV, posted 01-07-2008 10:35 AM nwr has replied

  
nwr
Member
Posts: 6412
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 17 of 55 (446856)
01-07-2008 11:27 AM
Reply to: Message 11 by MartinV
01-07-2008 10:35 AM


I. If such changes were possible in reproductive system of birds I see no reason why such changes in reproductive system would not have been possible in mammalian lineages too. It is only speculation that it was somehow impossible.
That seems to presuppose that evolution is purpose oriented, and will seek the best solution possible. I don't know of any support for such a view of evolution. Surely evolution is opportunistic, and takes a path that is good enough and that happens to be possible given the available variation within the genome (including variation provided by new mutations). And if it is opportunistic, there is no basis for expecting that it will find the best possible solution.
Now you consider sperms seeking lower temperature to be the source of their descent.
Sorry, but the idea of "sperms seeking lower temperature" is silly. Please don't ascribe that idea to me.
The opposite view - their lower temperature as adatation on environment is also possible.
I don't rule that out. Science answers the "how" questions, not the "why" questions.
To me, the traditional explanation looks like a reasonable hypothesis. But it is only a hypothesis. I don't have a problem acknowledging that we don't really know.
We have two poles.
You have not been clear on what are these two poles.

Let's end the political smears

This message is a reply to:
 Message 11 by MartinV, posted 01-07-2008 10:35 AM MartinV has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 20 by MartinV, posted 01-07-2008 11:52 AM nwr has seen this message but not replied

  
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