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Author | Topic: Meaning of "Us" in Genesis. | |||||||||||||||||||||||
Buzsaw Inactive Member |
In Matthew 28:19 baptism was to be administered in the name of the father, son and spirit, i.e. Jehovah/father, Jesus/son and spirit/Holy Spirit.
The epistles of the NT refer to God as the father, Jesus as the son and the spirit as the spirit of both the father and the son. The scriptures sometimes refer to the kingdom of God. The three above are referred to many as the Trinity, meaning, of course, three which is scriptural as I have shown. Each of the members of the Trinity have unique functions in the kingdom of God in the universe. Jehovah the father is the head of it on the throne. Jesus the son is the one on the right hand of the father having been born on earth to save planet earth and ultimately rule planet earth at the 2nd advent. In the meantime he acts as high priest interceeding for earth humans being our advocate since we sinful creatures are not worthy to approach God on our own merrits. The Holy Spirit is the only multipresent member of the Trinity who/which is sent by the head, Jehovah everywhere in the universe God chooses to effect the purposes and will of God such as creation, destruction, management, inspiration, conviction, empowerment, incarnation, etc, etc. Conclusion: God/Jehovah is the monotheist god of the universe who's spirit and son have a role in functions such as administration of the universe. Thus the words us and elohim (plural for god). Jesus is the only born/begotten (not created) son of Jehovah who also is worthy to receive praise and worship from other intelligent creatures. He is however not equal to Jehovah his father in all respects. He said so himself in John 14 where he said "my father is greater than I" and the apostle Paul said so in I Corinthians 15 towards the end of the chapter I believe where he says Jesus will be subject to the father. Edited by Buzsaw, : remove a word BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW. The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.
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Buzsaw Inactive Member |
That's presumptive poppycock. The proper name of the God of the Bible is stated over 6000 times as YHWH (Hebrew)/Jehovah (English). It means "I AM" as was explained to Moses or "the existing one/god". All others referring to Jehovah are adjectives or descriptions/traits.
BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW. The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.
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Buzsaw Inactive Member |
IAJ, getting this back to topic, the plurality of the Hebrew elohim, i.e. "Us" implies a plurality of the administrative complexity of Jehovah relative to his spirit and his son, the son being born directly from his spirit. The word god/elohim is a generic word applicable to any god.
Jesus, his father Jehovah both of who have designatied proper names is substantiated by thousands of references in the OT and at least hundreds of Jesus in the NT. The spirit of the two is simultaneously the multipresent spirit of both father and son who have designated proper names as substantiated by thousands of references in the OT to Jehovah and at least hundreds to Jesus in the NT who we Christians ascribe to the fulfillment of OT messianic prophecy. The modern English properly translated name of the head of the trinity is Jehovah. There's no way you can legitimately obfuscate your way around the above facts. BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW. The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.
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Buzsaw Inactive Member |
IAJ writes: The OT names are descriptive only....... That's nonsense. Though they had descriptive meanings as do modern proper names, they were proper names identifying and distinguishing living existing beings. BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW. The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.
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Buzsaw Inactive Member |
Otto writes: Buz writes: IAJ writes:The only certainty here is that all three scriptures cannot be equally correct... Do you agree with that statement? Hi Otto. What I regarded as nonsense is IAJ's claim that OT names were only descriptive. Elohim is not a proper name. It is a generic word which can be applicable to any god/gods. The descriptive term "us" is used once so far as I'm aware whereas Jehovah/YHWH is used over 6000 times. Adonai, again is not a proper name. It's also descriptive meaning lord/master. As to whether the NT and OT being equally correct, many OT as well as most NT scholars believe they are. One needs to be aware of the messianic prophecies of the OT, with the understanding that the NT era is the dispensational fulfillment of the OT. Regarding Islam, the Quran is compatible with neither the Hebrew or Christian scriptures. BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW. The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.
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Buzsaw Inactive Member |
autumnman writes: In the Gen. 1 - 2:3 creation account the Hebrew Deity is >elohiym {-iym=masculine plural suffix}, thus the 1st person plural "na0aseh=us make" in Gen. 1:26. Can't you see what you're saying here? All you're saying is that the Hebrew deity is gods, when in reality the Hebrew deity is Jehovah (modern English equivalent to the Hebrew YHWH) having complex aspects such as a multipresent spirit which calls for the plural suffix. BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW. The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.
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Buzsaw Inactive Member |
I don't see much here which warrants a response.
BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW. The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.
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Buzsaw Inactive Member |
jaywill writes: I agree with this except that I would capitalize Father, Son, and Spirit. The reason I tend to use the upper case when only applying to proper names is that the Greek manuscripts from which the translators translated did not use the upper case with father, son and spirit. Had the translators translated accurately as was written they would have translated exactly what the text said. Check out any NT interlinear and you will find this to be the case. Though I'm not a Greek scholar I've studied enough Greek including the fundamentals of it etc that I can use the interlinear quite efficiently. In the OT though the generic descriptive term for Jehovah/YHWH is elohim denoting plurality, Jehovah/YHWH is not a plural word. It's the proper surname of the Biblical god which means "the I am" or "the existing one." It is the proper name of the elohim/god Jehovah/YHWH. IAJ can argue till the cows come home that the name isn't the proper OT name for the god of Israel but he's whistling in the wind. I've decided to let him rant on. To address all his nonsense leads too far off topic. BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW. The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.
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Buzsaw Inactive Member |
ICANT writes: Where did you get the idea that God in Genesis 1:27 is not elohiym? All Jaywill is trying to show as I did is that though there are multiple aspects of Jehovah, the plurality of the term for god which is elohim does not make Jehovah, the monotheist god polytheist. BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW. The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.
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