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Author Topic:   Israel-Palestine: The One State Solution
Jaderis
Member (Idle past 3456 days)
Posts: 622
From: NY,NY
Joined: 06-16-2006


Message 12 of 16 (468747)
06-01-2008 6:13 AM
Reply to: Message 5 by IamJoseph
05-20-2008 3:51 AM


It is a tasteless TRUTH - and the testeless aspect comes from the unwarranted, genocidal demands made upon Israel. It is nothing short of genocide, all wrapped up in the sufferin' prtend pals, who clearly have more options than any so-called refugees not just in the world today, but in geo-history. It is a provable fact, half of the 700K arabs went and lived elsehwere, and the millions claiming this status now are not even from this region. Demadning that only arabs can return to houses they never owned legally, and even if they did, that a UN treaty is invalid because of this, is a one-sided genocide of Israel. Why stop here - what about the Jews, who were kicked out of their land by Rome - and their return barred by the church? What about the jews in europe and arab lands who lost their property: should they also demand new states?
I will say this, that my views are not those of Israel or Jews, or anyone, but represents perhaps a .1% of the world. But I believe I am morally, historically and legally correct: the balfour should be restored, Britan taken to task for its past attrocities, and the name palestinians, which Israel does not want, is a shame to be cast on muslims. The restoring of the Balfour is not likely at all, but doing so would not flick a fly off a camel's tail - not as far as land held and lost for the arabs. Most of the world prefers those slants which call for the demise of Israel - and this is fronted up with false dis-hisotry, such as palestinians; another 2-state [its a 3-state!], and never do we see anyone listing israel's rights - as if these do not exist.
"Israel's" rights do not exist. The land exists. The people who live there now exist, but their ancestors and the people who live there now took occupied land by force and pretended that they had a right to the land based on a fictional story. Yes, they had a superior military force (thanks to the US), but they had no right to the land. Yes, they had a good reason for the BE to carve out a section of the sand for them (although we have have to ask the question why not just assimilate all of the refugees into the Allied states instead of forcing people off of their land to accommodate something they had no part in to create a pseudo-historical state that became a proxy US colony?), but the BE should have taken all of those people who lived on that land into consideration. That is where the conflict comes from. Fracked up decisions from on high.
I find it highly interesting that a significant proportion of the US Christians support the Israeli "right" to return home, but, at the same time, shudder at the idea of Mexican "rights" to a significant proportion of "American" land. Or just Native American land rights in general? Why are the Jews in Israel supported when the Native Americans are shunned or the Mexican quests for reclaiming conquered lands are considered akin to terrorist acts? They have a more recent claim to land in America than the Jews do in Palestine by a factor of at least 1,500 years.
So, please tell me, why the disparity?

"You are metaphysicians. You can prove anything by metaphysics; and having done so, every metaphysician can prove every other metaphysician wrong--to his own satisfaction. You are anarchists in the realm of thought. And you are mad cosmos-makers. Each of you dwells in a cosmos of his own making, created out of his own fancies and desires. You do not know the real world in which you live, and your thinking has no place in the real world except in so far as it is phenomena of mental aberration." -The Iron Heel by Jack London
"Hazards exist that are not marked" - some bar in Chelsea

This message is a reply to:
 Message 5 by IamJoseph, posted 05-20-2008 3:51 AM IamJoseph has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 13 by IamJoseph, posted 06-01-2008 6:31 AM Jaderis has not replied

  
Jaderis
Member (Idle past 3456 days)
Posts: 622
From: NY,NY
Joined: 06-16-2006


Message 14 of 16 (468749)
06-01-2008 7:47 AM
Reply to: Message 7 by IamJoseph
05-20-2008 7:53 PM


Ok, then lets not make it transcend but equal to anything else - where is the equal declaration concerning all the Arab states - made scandalously behind closed doors, with no nations voting - do you approve such? If Israel is rejected, then all the states carved out by Britain become first negated - because these are less legitimate, by every criteria. But you are solely focused on Israel, which is a nano spec in the M/E. Oh the Sufferin Pretend pals!
You assume that the carved states are equally legitimate, with support from the people who reside within the carved states (and that "Arab states" would automatically support other "Arab" states as if they existed as a single entity).
We (I assume you mean the "left") are not "concerned" with Israel, especially, but the actions of Israel (with full support from the USA) are heinous, just as the actions of Hamas are heinous. Just as the actions in Saudi Arabia are heinous, just as the the actions in Afghanistan (pre 9/11) were heinous, just as the actions in Iraq were heinous (but we made them worse...why doesn't the "martyr doctrine" sink in?). No one paid attention to the "extreme left" then. No one gave a shit about the increasing anger in the ME, especially the intifada in 2000, except the left. The left was screaming about the rise of the Taliban in Afghanistan and the implications of extreme fundamentalism (not only with regards to human rights, but in general) for at least a decade before 9/11, but no one listened.
It only sunk in on 9/11.
And now the left are a bunch of sympathetic commie traitors...or whatever. Because we don't want to bomb them or try to make treaties with them with their infants on the end of bayonets. Because we saw this coming...not this exactly, but something like it and we want to *gasp* talk to them and see what they want instead of killing the young agitated adults and creating a new crop of fucked up kids. Because imperialism or the appearance thereof does not make for stabilized countries or happy fucking campers in what we hope to be stable countries.
Any great ideas besides those based on a 2,000 year old book? Something that might try to answer the modern conflict? Something that might have something to do with an answer based on something besides the OT or the NT?

"You are metaphysicians. You can prove anything by metaphysics; and having done so, every metaphysician can prove every other metaphysician wrong--to his own satisfaction. You are anarchists in the realm of thought. And you are mad cosmos-makers. Each of you dwells in a cosmos of his own making, created out of his own fancies and desires. You do not know the real world in which you live, and your thinking has no place in the real world except in so far as it is phenomena of mental aberration." -The Iron Heel by Jack London
"Hazards exist that are not marked" - some bar in Chelsea

This message is a reply to:
 Message 7 by IamJoseph, posted 05-20-2008 7:53 PM IamJoseph has not replied

  
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