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Author Topic:   Quantum physics: Copenhagen vs decoherence interpretations
cavediver
Member (Idle past 3673 days)
Posts: 4129
From: UK
Joined: 06-16-2005


Message 10 of 57 (468935)
06-02-2008 1:59 PM
Reply to: Message 9 by randman
06-02-2008 1:02 PM


Re: Your reason for presenting this information?
it becomes clear that the observance of non-locality in our space-time perspective is indeed real
What do you mean by non-locality?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 9 by randman, posted 06-02-2008 1:02 PM randman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 11 by randman, posted 06-02-2008 2:52 PM cavediver has replied

  
cavediver
Member (Idle past 3673 days)
Posts: 4129
From: UK
Joined: 06-16-2005


Message 12 of 57 (468949)
06-02-2008 3:20 PM
Reply to: Message 11 by randman
06-02-2008 2:52 PM


Re: Your reason for presenting this information?
I thought the meaning would be fairly clear. Here is a wiki article's description.
That Wiki description is anything but clear, and desperately needs rewriting.
I am specifically referring to the principle of entanglement which by the way is verified by experimental observation and predicted by quantum mechanics.
Yes, as an ex quantum physicist, I am fully aware of entanglement. But you were talking about non-locality. Entanglement and non-locality are not synonymous. And you say earlier that
the observance of non-locality in our space-time perspective is indeed real and a fact that must be wrestled with to properly understand the basic laws of the universe.
Well, entanglement is embedded in our basic laws of the Universe, is well understood, and requires no wrestling. So what is it about 'non-locality' that needs to be wrestled with?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 11 by randman, posted 06-02-2008 2:52 PM randman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 13 by randman, posted 06-02-2008 3:30 PM cavediver has replied

  
cavediver
Member (Idle past 3673 days)
Posts: 4129
From: UK
Joined: 06-16-2005


Message 14 of 57 (468958)
06-02-2008 4:23 PM
Reply to: Message 13 by randman
06-02-2008 3:30 PM


Re: Your reason for presenting this information?
Did you read the article?
Not to be flippant, but my knowledge of what quantum physicists think of non-locality and entanglement comes from having been one and having spent numerous years amongst others, many with far more knowledge and talent than I possess... I don't need to read popular press articles to understand my own world, thank you.
On your beef with non-locality
I'm sorry, what beef would that be? My concern is that you do not understand the terms you are using, as evidenced by your swapping and changing from non-locality to entanglement, and back again. And evidenced further by your choice of topic title...
it is a standard term in the literature when discussing entanglement which is a form of non-locality
Of course it can be mentioned, but that does not make the terms interchangable...
Experimental test of quantum nonlocality in three-photon Greenberger-Horne-Zeilinger entanglement
Yep, another 'ta-da' experiment showing that experimental quantum mechanics does indeed behave just like us theorists say it should. Great. Next?
Cutting to the chase, the simple fact is that no form of 'non-locality ' exhibited by quantum mechanics allows for superluminal transfer of information, leaving causality intact. Or from your layman's position, are you suggesting otherwise?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 13 by randman, posted 06-02-2008 3:30 PM randman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 15 by randman, posted 06-02-2008 4:32 PM cavediver has replied

  
cavediver
Member (Idle past 3673 days)
Posts: 4129
From: UK
Joined: 06-16-2005


Message 16 of 57 (468968)
06-02-2008 5:15 PM
Reply to: Message 15 by randman
06-02-2008 4:32 PM


Re: Your reason for presenting this information?
we are discussing the varying interpretations of quantum mechanics in respect to non-locality....such as whether observation is mere decoherence, the Many Worlds hypothesis and the transactional hypothesis, and exactly what the Copenhagen interpretation is.
I think you would need to understand something of these interpretations in general before trying to talk about non-locality. And then you would discover that the type of non-locality inherrent in QM is essentially idendepent of interpretation except in certain cases (that you don't mention.)
On causality, it's clear that causality or local realism are violated by QM or perhaps both.
Interesting. It is clear that local realism is violated. It is not clear at all that causality is violated; quite the opposite. Why would you try to claim otherwise? You have no evidence at all that causality is violated. You say that this is off-topic for your current thread but your comment suggests a level of disconnect enough to make me realise that any further conversation here, on-topic or off-topic, will be a waste of my time. If I have any time to spare for QM here, it will be to go back to Coleman's lecture and try to make it accessible, as Percy requested a while back.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 15 by randman, posted 06-02-2008 4:32 PM randman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 17 by randman, posted 06-02-2008 5:29 PM cavediver has not replied

  
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