EvC Forum: update: freedom found, natural selection theory pushed aside

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Topic: update: freedom found, natural selection theory pushed aside

Blue Jay

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Posts: 2843

From: You couldn't pronounce it with your mouthparts

Joined: 02-04-2008

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Message 183 of 224 (480645)
09-05-2008 10:36 AM

Reply to: Message 181 by Syamsu
09-05-2008 9:29 AM

Re: Anticipation vs Front-Loading vs Teleology?

Hi, Syamsu.

Syamsu writes:

I did explain to you what the difference is between alternatives in the future, and alternatives in the present.

I don't remember seeing you write anything but "alternatives in the future = strong anticipation, alternatives in the present = weak anticipation." That doesn't count as "explaining the difference," because all you've done is put a name to something that you haven't explained.

Can you provide me a link to the exact post where you explained what the difference is between "alternatives in the future" and "alternatives in the present"?

-Bluejay

Darwin loves you.

This message is a reply to:
	Message 181 by Syamsu, posted 09-05-2008 9:29 AM		Syamsu has replied

Replies to this message:
	Message 188 by Syamsu, posted 09-05-2008 3:31 PM		Blue Jay has not replied

Blue Jay

Member (Idle past 2727 days)

Posts: 2843

From: You couldn't pronounce it with your mouthparts

Joined: 02-04-2008

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Message 184 of 224 (480648)
09-05-2008 10:57 AM

Reply to: Message 182 by Syamsu
09-05-2008 9:36 AM

Re: Pedantic Pizza and Indecisive Bananas

Hi, Syamsu.

Syamsu writes:

The alternative futures in randomness also must be decided.

So, does your word "decision" only refer to the occurrence of just one of several alternatives? If so, what, exactly, do you think this theory is presenting that isn't already known? Doesn't randomness offer an explanation for the occurrence of just one of several alternatives, even if those alternatives are "in the future?"

I contend that, if this is your point, you are only peddling a new term for a phenomenon that already exists and has been described and explained by science. I also contend that, if this is not your point, you're just talking inconsistent, incoherent gibberish.

If you are insisting that "decisions" must imply "anticipation," you are really pushing teleology (goal-orienting) or front-loading (advance preparation). But, you have already said that your idea is distinct from these.

Edited by Bluejay, : Probably the worst grammar mistake I've ever made.

-Bluejay

Darwin loves you.

This message is a reply to:
	Message 182 by Syamsu, posted 09-05-2008 9:36 AM		Syamsu has not replied

Blue Jay

Member (Idle past 2727 days)

Posts: 2843

From: You couldn't pronounce it with your mouthparts

Joined: 02-04-2008

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Message 200 of 224 (480764)
09-06-2008 9:28 AM

Reply to: Message 197 by Syamsu
09-06-2008 4:11 AM

Re: Anticipation vs Front-Loading vs Teleology?

Hi, Syamsu.

Syamsu writes:

Blind random chance is not a working concept.

Why not?

Edited by Bluejay, : "qs" problems

-Bluejay

Darwin loves you.

This message is a reply to:
	Message 197 by Syamsu, posted 09-06-2008 4:11 AM		Syamsu has not replied

Blue Jay

Member (Idle past 2727 days)

Posts: 2843

From: You couldn't pronounce it with your mouthparts

Joined: 02-04-2008

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Message 216 of 224 (480886)
09-07-2008 1:00 PM

Reply to: Message 213 by Syamsu
09-07-2008 9:59 AM

Re: The Importance of Brains

Hi, Syamsu.

Syamsu writes:

So you see a brain does not decide at all really, nothing decides, that is objective fact.

How is this not the exact opposite of what you've been arguing throughout this thread?

-Bluejay

Darwin loves you.

This message is a reply to:
	Message 213 by Syamsu, posted 09-07-2008 9:59 AM		Syamsu has replied

Replies to this message:
	Message 217 by Syamsu, posted 09-07-2008 2:55 PM		Blue Jay has replied

Blue Jay

Member (Idle past 2727 days)

Posts: 2843

From: You couldn't pronounce it with your mouthparts

Joined: 02-04-2008

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Message 219 of 224 (480912)
09-07-2008 6:00 PM

Reply to: Message 217 by Syamsu
09-07-2008 2:55 PM

Who is Making the Decisions Here?

Hi, Syamsu.

I realize English probably isn't your first language. I think you should take a little more time constructing your posts and trying to make your meaning more clear. It would really help if you put in "qs" or "quote" boxes.

Syamsu writes:

The decision comes from nothing and nowhere, as I have said repeatedly...

You have not said this repeatedly: you haven't even said it once. Here's what you were saying before (Message 127):

Syamsu writes:

Yes I do believe toothbrushes make decisions, that they anticipate their future.

So, does the decision come from "nothing and nowhere" or does it come from the toothbrush?

-----

Syamsu writes:

As before, the logic does not work any other way, because we can't have anything at all predetermining the decision, because then it wouldn't actually be a decision, then it would be forced and not free.

First of all, what "other way" are you talking about?

Second, do you realize that "anticipation" is roughly the same thing as "predetermination," and that Edwina Taborsky's essay was, in fact, claiming that this is the way things work?

Third, if nothing is predetermining the decision, not only is there no anticipation, but the statement "alternatives in the future" loses the last bit of meaning it could possibly have.

-Bluejay

Darwin loves you.

This message is a reply to:
	Message 217 by Syamsu, posted 09-07-2008 2:55 PM		Syamsu has replied

Replies to this message:
	Message 221 by Syamsu, posted 09-07-2008 6:17 PM		Blue Jay has not replied

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