Investing In Inflation

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...on Christmas eve, 1913 after most had left...

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After most of whom had left what?

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...ignored the Constitution...

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Oh, this will be good. Pray tell, what provision of the Constitution did the Federal Reserve Act violate?

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Those who would sacrifice an essential liberty for a temporary security will lose both, and deserve neither. -- Benjamin FranklinWe see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat

You really don't have any critical thinking skills, do you?This is from Wiki: Given that Wiki cites the Congressional Record as a source, and the nutjob who writes Elliot Lake News cites no source, I'm inclined to put more credence in Wiki on this one.Thus, you were simply wrong when you said "most" had left. In addition, the claim that the Act was rammed through Congress is inconsistent with the facts, and the claim from Elliot Lake News that "many" had left is shown to be irrelevant to the passage of the Act.I notice that you ignored my question about what makes you think the Federal Reserve Act is unconstitutional.I'll take a second to response to some of the other tinfoil hat nonsense in your excerpt.From How Stuff Works: My emphasis.Thus, the suggestion that the Fed is scamming the country and making millions, billions or trillions of dollars from it is wrong.In addition, I've been unable to locate any credible source for the quote from Wilson. It certainly doesn't sound like anything that any former President would say, so I'm skeptical, but can't rule out the possibility that he did say it.

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Those who would sacrifice an essential liberty for a temporary security will lose both, and deserve neither. -- Benjamin FranklinWe see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat

Well, I already explained to you that the Federal Reserve doesn't make any profit on the money it makes. If you can't understand that, I'm not going to beat my head against the wall repeating it. If you disagree, please present some evidence, something other than tinfoil hat ravings.

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I guarantee that you will be enlightened by a reading of this page if you're not aware of how the Fed Reserve which is private bankers gets rich. This is what enriched the Rockefellers, the Rothchilds and the Warburgs etc at the expense of the folks.

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Sorry, I'm not enlightened. I've read this kind of crapola before. I know it's nonsense. In the future, if you wish to "enlighten" me by cutting and pasting tinfoil hat logorrhea, I suggest you at least choose one that cites to sources. I'm confident that you will ignore this suggestion, but at least I've tried.

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Article 1, Section 8 of the US Constitution specifically says that Congress is the only body that can "coin money and regulate the value thereof." The US Constitution has never been amended to allow anyone other than Congress to coin and regulate currency.

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Nope. Sorry, wrong.Let's look at Art I, Sec 8. It says, in part: This is the part of the Constitution that tinfoil hats rely on in arguing that the Fed is unconstitutional If they would only bother to read the entire Section, they'd get to the part that says that Congress has the power Congress, in passing the Federal Reserve Act, concluded that creation of the Federal Reserve system was "necessary and proper for carrying into execution" the power to "coin money, [and] regulate the value thereof."It's not unconstitutional.Still having problems with critical thinking skills, eh Buzzy?

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Those who would sacrifice an essential liberty for a temporary security will lose both, and deserve neither. -- Benjamin FranklinWe see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat

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On Christmas Eve, as I understand it, a surprise vote was held with members of the Senate absent for the holidays (more than enough to block the passage) Had the other Senators been present the consensus is that it would not have passed the Senate.

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Let's take this bit by bit, shall we?What's your source for your claim that it was a "surprise" vote? Please, something other than a tinfoil hat blog.What's your source for your claim that it would not have passed the Senate if the other Senators had been present? Again, something other than a tinfoil hat blog.

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The numbers absent etc were on another site. I believe there were 43 Senators which would be a minority present, voting aye. It appears that roughly half of the naysayers were absent for the holidays.

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Well, I provided the numbers in the post you're responding to. Maybe that's why they sound familiar. What's your source for your claim that "half of the naysayers were absent for the holidays?" Again, no tinfoil hat blogs.

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I would remove the word, support, and insert the word, enrich, in Wiki's first paragraph here.

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How wonderful for you. Do you have any actual facts, with actual support, to dispute Wiki, or is this just a "nuh uh!" retort?

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I believe the Fed gets 94% if I understand correctly. Do you have any idea how much that 6% that the bankers get after their meager expenses of creating the money? After expenses it's still astronomical

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Any actual figures to back up your claim, with supporting evidence?

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Information about the income and expenses of the Federal Reserve Board can be found in the Board of Governor's Annual Report.

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Fantastic! Why don't you go there and find some evidence to support what you're saying?

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The UTube link in my last message has it in it.

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Sorry. At the moment I'm not interested in killing a few brain cells listening to some drooling, semi-functional idiot, even for 10 minutes. Does he actually give a source for the quote that someone can look up, or does he simply mention the quote in passing, while polishing his tinfoil hat?

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Those who would sacrifice an essential liberty for a temporary security will lose both, and deserve neither. -- Benjamin FranklinWe see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat

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Subbie, it's time for you to stop hurling personal insults at your counterpart and do some supportive evidence yourself.

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Why? All you're going to do is ignore it all, just like you have throughout this thread. Just like you ignored all the questions I asked in my last two posts.

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I've produced some facts which you're denying.

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No you haven't. You've presented tinfoil hat ravings, completely unsupported by any real evidence.

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I see we're a percentage point off on the profit the banks get from the nearly free money they create from paper and the printing press. Do you realize how much that amounts to? Cite your source that my percentage figure is wrong and yours is right.

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You apparently are unable or refuse to understand the point. Regardless of what the percentage is, it's not profit. It's operating expenses. Here the 1999 Combined Statements of Income of the Federal Reserve Banks (in millions) The closest thing to profit in this statement is the $374,000,000 paid in dividends to member banks. Now, before you get your panties in a wad over the fact that $374,000,000 is paid in dividends, keep in mind that that money is paid out to some 2500 banks. A little math will show us that this works out to an average of about $150,000 per bank.

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You didn't directly refute my assertion that the Constitution relegated Congress the power to create money. Your stuff did not refute that fact.

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Of course I didn't refute that point, it's accurate. But what I did to was show how it's irrelevant. Congress passed the Federal Reserve Act pursuant to Article I, Sec. 8, Cl 18.

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Those who would sacrifice an essential liberty for a temporary security will lose both, and deserve neither. -- Benjamin FranklinWe see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat

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...in addition to the billions they receive from Fed interest over the period of a decade or so....

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Mind if I ask how long you're intending to ignore the facts I presented showing that the banks keep a very minimal amount of money, and that the vast majority of their income goes right back into the Treasury?

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Those who would sacrifice an essential liberty for a temporary security will lose both, and deserve neither. -- Benjamin FranklinWe see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat

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If Congress followed the Constitutional guidelines the cost to the folks would be minimized.

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I'm still waiting for you to tell me how the Federal Reserve is unconstitutional. Please quote the Article, Section and Clause that you believe Congress violated when it created the Fed. It would also be helpful if, in the course of your analysis, you kept Article I, Section 8, Clause 18 in mind, which gives Congress the power

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The power to profit themselves as I've iterated is the most significant detriment to the monetary system and the welfare of the nation.

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Ah, the old moving the goalposts, eh? How refreshing.It seems to me that whoever does the job that the Fed does would have the same opportunity for profit, so what difference does it make?BTW, I'm still waiting for your answers to the half dozen or so questions I asked in Message 33 above. Are you ignoring those as well, or are you working on a reply? Just curious.

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Those who would sacrifice an essential liberty for a temporary security will lose both, and deserve neither. -- Benjamin FranklinWe see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat

Ignoring Clause 18 will not make it go away.Oh, by the way, the Fed has nothing to do with coining money, that's the Bureau of Printing and Engraving, just in case you're confused about that as well.

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Those who would sacrifice an essential liberty for a temporary security will lose both, and deserve neither. -- Benjamin FranklinWe see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat

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The privately owned banks of the Federal Reserve do that since 1913 when the Federal Reserve System was created.

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Congress created the Federal Reserve Banks when it passed the Federal Reserve Act. Congress has the power to pass all laws necessary and proper to carrying out its powers under Article I, Section 8. By simply repeating that the Constitution confers upon Congress the power to coin and regulate the value of money, but ignoring my response that Congress properly delegated that power through legislation, you are not advancing this argument or your position.Try to say something new and interesting, okay?

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Those who would sacrifice an essential liberty for a temporary security will lose both, and deserve neither. -- Benjamin FranklinWe see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat

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Yah, we've discussed that....

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There's been no discussion. You've vomited tin foil hat rantings, I've questioned you about what you said (Message 33 above), and you've ignored my questions.Very curious definition of discussion you use.

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Those who would sacrifice an essential liberty for a temporary security will lose both, and deserve neither. -- Benjamin FranklinWe see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat

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I've got other more important things to do.

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More important things to do than answer questions you've never answered. Sounds like a concession to me. Thanks.

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Those who would sacrifice an essential liberty for a temporary security will lose both, and deserve neither. -- Benjamin FranklinWe see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat

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Evidently dissenting members of Congress and members of the Senate who dissented and who had already gone home for the holidays agreed with my position that the reserve act was not consistent with the Article 8 provision which relegated the powers to determine the amount and value of coinage to Congress.

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I'd ask you for evidence to support this, but since you've ignored all my other requests for evidence, it would seem pointless.

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Those who would sacrifice an essential liberty for a temporary security will lose both, and deserve neither. -- Benjamin FranklinWe see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat

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The record also shows that almost all of those not voting on the bill had previously declared their intentions and were paired with members of opposite intentions (See v. 51 Cong. Record, pages 1464, 1487-88).]

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(bold mine)What the highlighted portion means is that each person who was going to vote against it was matched with a person who was going to vote for it. As a result, even if everyone absent had been present and voting, it would have passed by the exact same margin.

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Those who would sacrifice an essential liberty for a temporary security will lose both, and deserve neither. -- Benjamin FranklinWe see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat

More tin foil hat ramblings, distortions and deceptions.Seems to me I earlier suggested that you use sources that cite their sources. Seems to me I also predicted that you'd ignore that suggestion. Seems I was right.The only source that Melvin cites is a book, and he neglects to tell us what part of what he wrote came from where in the book, so it's virtually worthless. Thus, the only way to evaluate what he wrote is his own personal credibility.Here are a couple of other things old Melvin has written: Beware of Harry Potter! A sneaky way to promote the occultA Satanic Plot for a One World Government
The World Conspirators: the IlluminatiDon't believe something you read just because you agree with it. Find out what sources the author is relying on, and check the credibility of those sources.Just because you find something on teh intrawebs that agrees with your position, that doesn't mean your position is stronger.

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Those who would sacrifice an essential liberty for a temporary security will lose both, and deserve neither. -- Benjamin FranklinWe see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat

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Your examples of distortions and deceptions in the link are?

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Here are a few, just from the excerpt you quoted. There are more in the rest of his ravings. Wrong. Congress oversees the Fed. Wrong. Previously debunked in this thread. Wrong. Previously debunked in this thread. Wrong. The Fed doesn't lend to states, municipalities, businesses or individuals.A fair portion of what you quoted is so incomprehensible that I can't begin to understand what he's saying.

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Those who would sacrifice an essential liberty for a temporary security will lose both, and deserve neither. -- Benjamin FranklinWe see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat