Checking for validity of supposed early christian gay marriage rite

Hey RamossSorry I haven't responded to your previous posts, but i didn't want to get bogged down trying to debate three or more people at the same time (its usually how people of my persuasion lose on this forum; tiring out mentally responding to so much strikes and counter ones). Lets not go there on another area of debate; Judaism VS Christianity has not had the best of history, let alone religion debating religion. That gets nowhere quick. I once saw a Christian downing Islam in London on a CN show once; he had plenty to argue with, and sometimes his life was threatened. What does that accomplish? Eating Pork is not against Christian beliefs (as Catholic scientist made clear in a recent post), but sexual immorality, as defined in the Torah, is. So the things about pork and ceremonial thingies dont matter to a Christian.It should matter to a Jew though, who is under the dictates of the full Torah (though different demoninations of Judaism differ in opinion asto what exactly they are under when it comes to the Torah, and live similarly in some regards to a Christian.BTW: I've never had a BLT, but i have had Bacon; excellent stuff. But i'm just getting out of severe surgery and trying to live healthier. Turkey Bacon though is very healthy compared to Pig bacon and has the same great taste. But then again for a Jew i'm not sure that a Turkey would be considered "clean". I'll have to research.

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"The Nephilim where in the Earth in those days..." Genesis 6:4

Rrhain gives birth to rhetoric to us, take it in the rear... There are several questions you haven't answered of mine, either. They both condemn evil practices, both sometimes used for sexual deviance (see Zondervan NIV exhaustive Concordance, page 2372 (num 2365), Stongs again (the one I quoted), page 75 (number 2154)and "The Complete Word Study Dictionary: Old Testament", page 293 (numz 2154).Strangely, the word "Zimah" is a eminine noun that can refer to "Plan, purpose, counsel" as well as "wickedness, Lewdness and sin" (latter lbid)Just as Toevyeh is "something disgusting", can refer to things that are against God's Nature (strongs), and anything offensive (Complete word study Old Testament lbid), like child sacrifice or idolatry (lbid). Seems Toevyeh is more strenous and more powerful a word for sin than Zimmah is. Strange... Simple; I study the work of people who Know Hebrew (scholars, professors, experts) and relate their results, which you seem not to have a response to. Where are your credentials? Where are your books and scholarly papers? Even if you put them on here, why should I take your word over the numerous scholars that see the obvious? Perhaps you dont know the Hebrew either, but pretend you do, writing what you see in a Hebrew Old Testament but cannot understand. Yet you forget that Toevyeh refers to the likes of adultery, incest, child sacrifice (passing your "seed" to Le Molech)as well as Homosexual sexs and bestiality (See Leviticus 18:1-30. Notice the following:"But you shall keep my statutes and my rules and do none of these abominations, either the native or the stranger who sojourns among you (for the people of the land, who were before you, did all of these abominations, so that the land became unclean), lest the land vomit you out when you make it unclean, as it vomited out the nation that was before you. For everyone who does any of these abominations, the persons who do them shall be cut off from among their people. So keep my charge never to practice any of these abominable customs that were practiced before you, and never to make yourselves unclean by them: I am the Lord your God."Leviticus 18:26-30.And what weree those abominations??Incest (18:6-17)
Menstrual sex (18:19)
Adultery (18:20)
Child sacrifce (18:21)
Human-animal sex (18:23)
And (da dada DAAAAHHH!!!!!!!!)
Homosexual sex (18:22).All these things okay in your book, since they are called "Toevyeh"? Okay outside of ritual? "Do not make yourselves unclean by any of these things, for by all these the nations I am driving out before you have become unclean, and the land became unclean, so that I punished its iniquity, and the land vomited out its inhabitants. But you shall keep my statutes and my rules and do none of these abominations, either the native or the stranger who sojourns among you"
Leviticus 18:24-26Probably means that abomiable practices, "as done by the Gentiles around you" (winkwink), are not to be done by the children of Israel.BTW: is "Goyim" (Gentile) in Leviticus 18:22? That the sins listed in Leviticus were not just "lewd" but "disgusting". Of course many people forget that there are several different words we use for sexual deviance today (Sick,gross, evil, detestable, unrighteous, unholy, sickening, depraved, warped, grotesque, etc)If someone describes sexual deviance today (as we "define" it ) as "unholy" or "Ungodly" or even (Congress forbid! Oprah Forbid!!!!!) "Unchristian", then therefore the sexual deviance in question (perhaps beastiality, pedophilia, dedrophilia (hopethatsspeltzright), then those sexual sins are only sins when it comes to ritual prctices? Is it illegal to do such things in a modern place of worhip in America, but okay anywhere else? Were does it describe beastiality and child sacrifice as "Zimah"? Whyn are not all the sexual sins described in leviticus 18 (yes, despite your cavorting around about Zimmah and Toevyeh, that is what the context is all about)desribed as "Zimah"? Incest is in verse 17, but were else? Is it in the chapter other than that?So therefore, if Homosexuality is okay in your book, considering it is listed as "toeyveh" and not "Zimah" (as if God didn't want us to use common sense in interpreting his word) then do you consider Beastiality and child sacrifice okay?ad btw: ALL sins in Leviticus are described as "Toeyvah"? Look back at Leviticus 19:29 again. So therefore Mockery is just as bad as child sacrifice and Beastiality, no more no less? Evidence, please.And child Sacrifice/Beatsiality is not as bad as Prostitution? One only for ritual purposes and the other for everyday life (remember those Temple Prostitutes you were going on about earlier. Notice the context of verses 29-30, where the train of thought is cut off from the last verse before "I am the Lord", and where it mentions in the last verse here "reverence for my sanctuary" (19:30)?) Evidence there too, please.Edited by LudoRephaim, : No reason given.

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"The Nephilim where in the Earth in those days..." Genesis 6:4

Just as you are a salad-bar Jew? Pot callin' the kettle black. As if you ever did, or even know what it means... If you paid attention to what I wrote in message 46 (hint-Moral Law) and checked up on the verses I listed down, you would see what total nonsense you just wrote.BTW: Its pretty smug advice to tell someone how to follow the Law when you disregard any section of it when it conflicts with your own personal politics. Don't know much about Christianity, do you? Ad who gives you the rigt to tell Christians how to follow their beliefs?? Slap on the head; I just remembered a National geographic that talked about Jews eating turkey among many other things.

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"The Nephilim where in the Earth in those days..." Genesis 6:4

BLLLCrap Not according to the sources (written by people who for a fact know Hebrew) wrote. Even the Jewish study Bible doesn't state that the acts ivolved were ritual, but about the wasting of seed.Once again, you act like Ken ham; all bark, no bite. Prove it (ie you cant, because you ignore the evidence to the contrary.) Just like flat Earthers say about scientists and historians who state that the world is round? Or young Earth Creationists who questio the validty of Geologists who state tha the world is over 4 billion years old?Do you question Atomic theory? Do you have to get a degree in physics before you finally accept it?What about the theory of gravity?Germ theory?You absolutely question the translations and intrpretations of both Homer's Iliad and Oddyssey, and wont be convinced that what they are proven to say is true until you get a degree in ancient Greek??Will you not believe in Dinosaurs until you see a dinosaur bone for yourself, and run numerous chemical and other tests to confirm that it is a true dinosaur fossil and not a natural broken (albiet strangely formd) stone?You expect me to take your single word over the words of numerous Hebrew scholars that dissagree with you, that take the text for what it really says, what is so obvious to those that can read (even in braille) ? But it would be consistent with your views if you did. It seems that you were hinting at such. So if Ken ham states "No matter how many scientists and Historians claim that the Earth is over 4 billion years old, thatdoes not make it true.", would you concur with that? You would say the same on Beastiality?(Having Computer trouble. I might not make it back. Hope to respond later.)Edited by LudoRephaim, : No reason given.

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"The Nephilim where in the Earth in those days..." Genesis 6:4

Comparison between sexual and dietary mores? Apples n' Oranges. !
You want to supervise gays having sex??
Something you have not told us, Rrhain? Ho many times have you seen that movie "Birdcage"? So once again, are you saying that there were no gay people in the ancient world? So beastiality (ie animal cruelty) and child sacrifice are not inherently evil? Considering his pagan background (he was originally from Ur), the fact that the majority of the Law wasn't written yet (ie that part about "thou shall not Murder") and the fact that God didn't reveal the whole Torah to Abraham (once again, "thou shall not murder" and "dont sacrifice your children to Molech'), it is not so surprising at all.

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"The Nephilim where in the Earth in those days..." Genesis 6:4

Hello there ICANT ICANT Responds To Rrhain Welcome to my world!

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"The Nephilim where in the Earth in those days..." Genesis 6:4

Read again what you have written and say that to yourself in the mirror without laughing. 1. You ignore the literal meaning of the passage
2. You ignore the hebrew scholar evidence to keep your own belief.
3. You believe that you are correct and Bible scholarship is wrong.How do I know you are untruthful to the text? Your writing posts. And twisting it. If you knew the Law, you wouldn't butcher it. Its based on God's truth, not your political inclines. Man-made ethics doesn't count for squat, unless you cherry pick/twist/lie about the Law. Yes, your political presuppositions regarding a text you should t least believe that God inspired, not you. The whole of Leviticus 18. Just as there is a difference between what Reform Jews actually do and what the Torah says should be done? Do you know Koine Greek? Aramaic? Like shooting fish in a barrel;"Again Jesus called the crowd to him and said, "Listen to me everyone, and understand this. Nothing outside a man can make him 'unclean' by going in him. Rather, it is what comes out of a man that makes him 'unclean'. After he had left the crowd and entered the house, his disciples asked him about the parable. "Are you so dull?" he asked. "Dont you see that nothing that enters a man from the outside can make him 'unclean'? For it doesn't go into his heart but into his stomach, and then out of his body." (In saying this, Jesus declared all foods clean.).Mark 7:14-19and what were those unlcean foods Jesus was talking about?ta tatatatatAHHHH:Drum roll:Here it is Johnny!LEVITICUS 11!See what opened minded Bible study can do?More to follow, at a later time...Edited by LudoRephaim, : No reason given.Edited by LudoRephaim, : No reason given.

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"The Nephilim where in the Earth in those days..." Genesis 6:4

What sources? You didn't quote where your supposd "scholarly" quotes came from. And every libby response libby "scholars" make has been responded to in some of the sources I quoted. You didn't even put the crednetials of your "sources", nor put forth as many (You haven't really at all). Then you should have got a more literal translation from your local library or bookstore (order it if it is not there) and then you would have had more fun. I owned a literal translation of the epic of Gilamesh before i had to by the paraphrase for a class including it into the writing ciriculla.So i ask again; Do you not trust all translaions of Homer's iliad and odyssey? Would you not trust it unless you had a Phd in Greek language?? Becuase you debate against the facts and reality when it comes to levitical passages on homosexuality (in this context against sexual sins)yet do nothing when beastiality is mentioned in the same passage, in a similar way.Do you think that people who sleep with animals should only not act out their formof sexual pleasure in a ritual fashion, yet should not repent of their deeds in their everyday secular lives?? If you twist one aspect of the Torah, why not all of it? The latter is not condemned entirely in Leviticus 18 but strictly regulated; the latter, along with Beastiality, are condemned.

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"The Nephilim where in the Earth in those days..." Genesis 6:4

So your okay with man-on-animal sex as long as it is not in a ritual manner? have you ever followed the Law and not your own heart? Do you follow the dietary Laws?and of course you forget that to a Christian, the dietary laws are not followed as in Old Testament times (see Mark passage I quoted, as well as Acts 15). Which I've shown from scholarly sources that it can mean more than just something ritually impure (begging the question; is it okay to eat any of the foods listed in Leviticus 11 as long as no ritual is thus attached??) When someone ignores the facts like you do, it must be personal. Thank God, since i'm not gay to begin with. You, perhaps on the other hand... Oh yes, that is true, until Israelite religion came along (Dennis Prager, "Judaism's sexual revolution: Why Judaism (and Christianity) rejected Homosexuality", crisis 11, no.8 (September 1993), 25-32. So no one had sex with animals in the past for the sick pleasure? No one killed their children for other than religious reasons? Neither animal sacrifice nor killing animals for food or clothing would fall under it. The latter was a necessary thing at the time. And it wasn't done with abject cruelty (there's a difference between sliting a sheep's throat and having it torn apart by attack dogs.)nor was it done for cruelty's sake (it was a religious ritual after all). Abraham was raised under Judaism? His father (Terah) was a worshipper of God and God alone? UR of the Chaldees and Haran were Godly cities??Evidence, please. It was a sin to have the death penalty until after the flood of Noah (see all of Genesis chapter 4, compare to 9:1-6). Eating Meat was not allowed until after the end of the Flood (See Genesis 1:29-30, compare to 9:1-3). And even though Murder has always been a sin (see once again Genesis 4), Abraham was entirely ignorant as to how God felt about child sacrifice (You notice that God DID stop the sacrifice from happening). Abraham may not have even known about the Cain and able story, and certainly didn't have the revelation of God that Moses had, were human sacrifice (ahem Murder) is more clearly spelled out. So Noah followed the same dietary code that the later Mosaic law put forth? Noah was an israelite (hint; Jacob, also called "Israel" was born many a moon after Noah flood, let alone Noah's very own conception, and Abraham and his father were likewise born at a much later age thatn the pre-flood time) ?? Has it not occurred to you that since Noah lived at a different time, land, etc that he might have come from a culture that demanded different dietary laws than the ones Moses put down centuries, perhaps millenia afterwards? You do know that people during that time were forbidden to eat meat, something the dietary laws of Moses (Leviticus 11) allow within certain limitations (see Genesis 1:29-30, 9:1-3,Noah followed Mosaic dietary laws? Noah considered animals mentioned as forbidden to eat in Leviticus "unclean", even though he never had access to the Book of Leviicus (came about a bit later than his time)? Sources, please. And you say I dont know the Law? It was to test Abraham's faith and allegiance. And as you forget (as well as ignore), Abraham was from UR, a pagan city with a Pagan culture, and nowhere in the Bible does it say that Abraham was always a follower of God nor that he neevr followed any other God (a strong possibility which you refuse to accept). And as you also forget, the sacrifice was not carried out.Edited by LudoRephaim, : No reason given.

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"The Nephilim where in the Earth in those days..." Genesis 6:4