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Author Topic:   An accurate analogy of Evolution by Natural selection
slevesque
Member (Idle past 2718 days)
Posts: 1456
Joined: 05-14-2009


Message 46 of 49 (512686)
06-20-2009 1:23 AM
Reply to: Message 45 by Huntard
06-15-2009 10:25 AM


Re: Analogy -- not!
Yeah I remember it, never came back on it though.

I also remember that your source was pretty old, and that the more recent research on the mutation was that it was not a 'by chance' simple frame shift mutation.

Yomo, T., Urabe, I. and Okada, H., No stop codons in the antisense strands of the genes for nylon oligomer degradation, Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences USA 89:3780–3784, 1992

quote from Yomo:

‘These results imply that there may be some unknown mechanism behind the evolution of these genes for nylon oligomer-degrading enzymes.

‘The presence of a long NSF (non-stop frame) in the antisense strand seems to be a rare case, but it may be due to the unusual characteristics of the genes or plasmids for nylon oligomer degradation.

‘Accordingly, the actual existence of these NSFs leads us to speculate that some special mechanism exists in the regions of these genes.’

If it is indeed a preexisting mechanism that was responsible for this mutation, then it was not random as Ohmo had suggested back in 1984.

You also had used Shannon's information theory and applied it to genetics, something shannon himself warned not to do.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 45 by Huntard, posted 06-15-2009 10:25 AM Huntard has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 47 by Huntard, posted 06-20-2009 4:36 AM slevesque has responded

  
Huntard
Member (Idle past 373 days)
Posts: 2870
From: Limburg, The Netherlands
Joined: 09-02-2008


Message 47 of 49 (512696)
06-20-2009 4:36 AM
Reply to: Message 46 by slevesque
06-20-2009 1:23 AM


Re: Analogy -- not!
slevesque writes:

If it is indeed a preexisting mechanism that was responsible for this mutation, then it was not random as Ohmo had suggested back in 1984.


How so? The mechanism for mutations is pre-existing as well, being the imperfect copying mechanism of DNA. Does this mean ALL mutations aren't random either?

You also had used Shannon's information theory and applied it to genetics, something shannon himself warned not to do.

I'd like a source for that, please. :)


I hunt for the truth
This message is a reply to:
 Message 46 by slevesque, posted 06-20-2009 1:23 AM slevesque has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 48 by slevesque, posted 06-20-2009 5:02 AM Huntard has not yet responded

    
slevesque
Member (Idle past 2718 days)
Posts: 1456
Joined: 05-14-2009


Message 48 of 49 (512697)
06-20-2009 5:02 AM
Reply to: Message 47 by Huntard
06-20-2009 4:36 AM


Re: Analogy -- not!
I'll check for the source, but it probably won't be 'genetics' but rather 'biological systems'.

A mutation is totally random because it is based on the random movements of the atoms-electrons in a molecule. If a mutation turns out to be non-random, then it means that there is an underlying mechanism making it non-random. (such as transposase genes)


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Replies to this message:
 Message 49 by Percy, posted 06-20-2009 5:21 AM slevesque has not yet responded

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 18309
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.7


Message 49 of 49 (512703)
06-20-2009 5:21 AM
Reply to: Message 48 by slevesque
06-20-2009 5:02 AM


Re: Analogy -- not!
There are both random and non-random causes of mutation. The transposase enzyme is one cause of mutations, but it is not necessarily non-random. According to the Wikipedia article on transposons, some types move specific DNA to specific targets, while others act more randomly.

--Percy


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 Message 48 by slevesque, posted 06-20-2009 5:02 AM slevesque has not yet responded

    
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