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Author Topic:   Now I know that Alfred Wegener`s theory is wrong!
edge
Member (Idle past 1737 days)
Posts: 4696
From: Colorado, USA
Joined: 01-09-2002


(1)
Message 49 of 152 (529327)
10-08-2009 10:09 PM
Reply to: Message 46 by Aspevik
10-08-2009 8:41 PM


Re: An Initial Question
Here is a picture I haven`t published before, but this is how I belive North and South-America was paired . In the middle we have the San Andreas Fault today.
Here is an another proposal I think is more correct:
No.
First of all the San Andreas is a transform boundary not a divergent plate boundary or a convergent plate boundary.
If your case were correct, Colombia should now be where the Gulf of Alaska is.
The cordilleran chains are features that started in the late Mesozoic. So why are you using an Ediacaran aged reconstruction?
How did SA and Africa move so far since the Cretaceous? Do you have any evidence for this motion?
Do you have anything other than some fantasy about lining up continents willy nilly?
Do you know that the continents are not the same shape now as they were in the Proterozoic? Rox was getting at this earlier, but you ignored the question.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 46 by Aspevik, posted 10-08-2009 8:41 PM Aspevik has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 53 by Aspevik, posted 10-09-2009 5:51 AM edge has not replied

  
edge
Member (Idle past 1737 days)
Posts: 4696
From: Colorado, USA
Joined: 01-09-2002


Message 59 of 152 (529494)
10-09-2009 3:43 PM
Reply to: Message 55 by Aspevik
10-09-2009 11:45 AM


Re: An Initial Question
Okay, let's take Grasberg, the largest single concentration of gold on the planet. On the surface, it looks like it belongs in your target area. The only problem is that this target are didn't exist in Ediacaran times, when your meteorite struck the earth.
The deposit is approximately 3my old and the oldest sedimentary rocks nearby are Eocene, which makes them 34 to 56my old. Now that's only half a billion years after your meteorite impact. Please explain the discrepancy.
http://econgeol.geoscienceworld.org/...t/abstract/100/5/1005

This message is a reply to:
 Message 55 by Aspevik, posted 10-09-2009 11:45 AM Aspevik has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 62 by Aspevik, posted 10-09-2009 6:00 PM edge has replied

  
edge
Member (Idle past 1737 days)
Posts: 4696
From: Colorado, USA
Joined: 01-09-2002


Message 60 of 152 (529495)
10-09-2009 3:47 PM
Reply to: Message 58 by roxrkool
10-09-2009 3:36 PM


Re: An Initial Question
Hey, Rox,
It's kind of interesting how Helge complains that geologists don't listen to him. Sounds to me like a case of 'what goes around comes around.' A major case of projection here.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 58 by roxrkool, posted 10-09-2009 3:36 PM roxrkool has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 61 by roxrkool, posted 10-09-2009 3:58 PM edge has not replied
 Message 63 by Aspevik, posted 10-09-2009 6:08 PM edge has replied

  
edge
Member (Idle past 1737 days)
Posts: 4696
From: Colorado, USA
Joined: 01-09-2002


Message 65 of 152 (529579)
10-09-2009 7:27 PM
Reply to: Message 62 by Aspevik
10-09-2009 6:00 PM


Re: An Initial Question
Yes, I think I can explain that. The scientist claims that we find a lot of liquid gold near the middle of the Earth.
They do? Please document. Then explain why 'scientists' are right about this but so wrong about things we can actually see a the surface of the earth.
If "somthing" was pressed through the crust and near the Eart`s middle, the gold would have been pressed up to the surface on the crust. It have to been pressed through the softer parts of the plates which has a consistency as "pasta". It`s like butter in the porridge if we can use that description.
This mass have not solidified yet, but when this mass come to top a part of this goldvein follow this mass to top from the middle of the Eart. Not all the veins came to the top of the crust when the continents breaked up, but this gold stocks in this "pasta" before it became a part of the crust.
Okay, then show us where the gold 'waited' before it came to the surface. This would be a good place to provide some evidence.
In the meantime, if the gold is so heavy, why did it continue its upward journey? Why do we find gold in extensional tectonic regimes? How was the gold transported? And why does it occur with lighter and more volatile elements?
Helge, I'm losing my patience here.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 62 by Aspevik, posted 10-09-2009 6:00 PM Aspevik has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 69 by Aspevik, posted 10-10-2009 5:22 AM edge has replied

  
edge
Member (Idle past 1737 days)
Posts: 4696
From: Colorado, USA
Joined: 01-09-2002


Message 66 of 152 (529581)
10-09-2009 7:30 PM
Reply to: Message 63 by Aspevik
10-09-2009 6:08 PM


Re: An Initial Question
I don't think you understood...
I'm not talking about anyone else. I'm talking about you complaining so strongly about something that you are so good at.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 63 by Aspevik, posted 10-09-2009 6:08 PM Aspevik has not replied

  
edge
Member (Idle past 1737 days)
Posts: 4696
From: Colorado, USA
Joined: 01-09-2002


Message 71 of 152 (529746)
10-10-2009 10:42 AM
Reply to: Message 69 by Aspevik
10-10-2009 5:22 AM


Re: An Initial Question
You seem to know a lot about lower mantle processes. Where do you get this information? The link you provided is apparently from a fringe pseudoscience group, but I can't mine any further into the data. Do you have any scientific literature to support the lower mantle source of gold and its deposition from a liquid state?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 69 by Aspevik, posted 10-10-2009 5:22 AM Aspevik has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 72 by Aspevik, posted 10-10-2009 11:35 AM edge has replied
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edge
Member (Idle past 1737 days)
Posts: 4696
From: Colorado, USA
Joined: 01-09-2002


Message 74 of 152 (529766)
10-10-2009 12:03 PM
Reply to: Message 72 by Aspevik
10-10-2009 11:35 AM


Re: An Initial Question
A couple of things.
First of all, now you are talking about the core of the earth when before it was the mantle. The article says nothing about gold accumulations in the mantle.
Second, you article explains one possible reason why there is still gold in the crust and it has nothing to do with liquid gold spurting up through the mantle and into the crust.
Third, there are many arguments like this. Yes there would be a lot of gold in the core, but it is dispersed in a way that makes it inaccessible. Note that the tenor of the gold in the core is thought to be about one gram per ton of core material. This is of a lower grade than most historical gold production from the crust.
The point being that your expertise on gold deposits leaves a lot to be desired.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 72 by Aspevik, posted 10-10-2009 11:35 AM Aspevik has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 75 by Aspevik, posted 10-10-2009 12:10 PM edge has replied

  
edge
Member (Idle past 1737 days)
Posts: 4696
From: Colorado, USA
Joined: 01-09-2002


Message 76 of 152 (529770)
10-10-2009 12:19 PM
Reply to: Message 75 by Aspevik
10-10-2009 12:10 PM


Re: An Initial Question
Yes, I see nothing to disagree with. However, your intepretation of them is invalid with respect to this discussion. You can answer my points now.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 75 by Aspevik, posted 10-10-2009 12:10 PM Aspevik has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 79 by Aspevik, posted 10-10-2009 1:57 PM edge has replied

  
edge
Member (Idle past 1737 days)
Posts: 4696
From: Colorado, USA
Joined: 01-09-2002


Message 84 of 152 (529809)
10-10-2009 5:21 PM
Reply to: Message 79 by Aspevik
10-10-2009 1:57 PM


Re: An Initial Question
That dosen`t matter because my pont was that a meter huit the surfase and went into the Earth, maybe not into the core but close to so the gold in the core was pressed out the easiest way out and thats the way the metor went into the Earth. When the gold was pressed up to the surface, I mean this and another minerals from the deep filled up some of the cracks this metorite made when it hit the crust.
Hmmm, it is hard to imagine an impact this large in Ediacaran time that would not leave a substantial mark on the earth, particularly if it could cause gold veins to occur 500 million years later. I am curious as to why we do not see more therm metamorphic effects around gold veins, not to mention shock features in Ediacaran rocks.
Second, you article explains one possible reason why there is still gold in the crust and it has nothing to do with liquid gold spurting up through the mantle and into the crust.
Exactly my point.
No, these articles tells us that we have a lot of gold inside the middle of the Earth. And it is realy hot there and therefore is the gold liquid too. This metal are so heavy that if we find this metal in veins here in the on the surfase, this veins most have been created one way or another. And there most have been a reason to that the gold ended into this veins too.
I don't suppose you'd consider geochemical transport (for which there is ample evidence, by the way), would you?
I think you understand what I mean to say, but I also think you only want to argue against everything I say here, of principle.
Like many YECs, not to say that you are one, you know enough dicsonnected facts that you can build a wishful story around them and think you have solved some mystery, or found some weakness in mainstream theory.
ou don`t like new ideas at all and you belive that you have learned evertything you need at the University you went on. That isn`t sciense at all. Sciense demands that we are open to new ideas, curious and investigative. Nobody likes changes, but without changes we will not make progress either. It does not help to insist on school lessons, and dismiss any new ideas just because we think we know everything about geology and don`t need to listen to new ideas.
Wrong. I love change. I thrive on change. However, new ideas have to honor the facts that I know. All of them. Your ideas do not do that. YOu cannot go carelessly tossing continents about and expect anyone to listen to you. You have gotten a pretty fair hearing here and I think it is time to go back to your drawing board.
As you can see at : my Web Site , I had only moved Gondwanaland and I detected that the most part of the gold fields in the world came at the same area in the world, in stead of spread all over the world like they are today. Just the same happend to the fossils from the Ediacara perioid.
Except that they don't occur on the same part of the world, even on your map.
And no. You didn't 'just move gondwana', you tranlated Africa 180 degreses and moved to a point east of Japan. And you have provided no evidence for this.
There are more. Africa and the whole Eurasia are moving the same direction today as I have told in my theory the last 20 years. The scientist have used GPS to determine this. Here is a picture I have from this page (Norwegian, sorry): Forbruksln - Billig Ln Med Geoportalen.no
No, Helge, read closely. They are moving in the same direction at different rates. That means in relative terms Africa is colliding with Europe in the Mediterranean Sea area.
Having said that, I cannot determine what all of these motions are relative to. Usually, in paleogeographic reconstructions, one plate is considered stable and the only motions we can resolve are relative to it. So, I am skeptical of this dynamic interpretation. Maybe there is an explanation in the text, but I don't have time to translate.
And no. I do not see the directions that you show on this diagram.

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 Message 79 by Aspevik, posted 10-10-2009 1:57 PM Aspevik has not replied

  
edge
Member (Idle past 1737 days)
Posts: 4696
From: Colorado, USA
Joined: 01-09-2002


Message 87 of 152 (529837)
10-10-2009 7:12 PM
Reply to: Message 86 by Aspevik
10-10-2009 6:28 PM


Re: An Initial Question
This hit, in Cenozoic who also started 542 millions ago when these animals died, pressed the new mass up under the continent(today Aurasia) and the mass came up at the end or edge of this plate, at the same time the other grey areas came up.
So now you are not just moving Gondwana, but you are moving the Cenozoic back in time by half a billion years. Interesting.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 86 by Aspevik, posted 10-10-2009 6:28 PM Aspevik has replied

Replies to this message:
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edge
Member (Idle past 1737 days)
Posts: 4696
From: Colorado, USA
Joined: 01-09-2002


Message 106 of 152 (530152)
10-12-2009 1:39 PM
Reply to: Message 103 by Aspevik
10-12-2009 11:34 AM


Re: An Initial Question
As I have told before there is only two ways the continents can have been created. And that is as a result of sentrifugal force or the sentripital force.
What about bouyancy?
The sentrifugal force press the lighter mass out to Equator an makes the continents arond the Earth.
Not really. In a centrifuge, the heavier elements tend to move away from the center of rotation faster than the lighter and they would displace the ligher elements. I think we should send you to Iran to run their centrifuges.
But if we use the sentripital force, the heavier mass sink to the bottom in the Earth an the lighter mass floaten up to the top so far it possible.
Actually, there is no centripetal force other than a reaction to the centrifugal force. The only other force is gravity, but that has less to do with rotation than centrifugal.
Since the Equator is 15 kilometers longer out than the poles, the mass will be clustered there. no matter which of these two explanatory models to use, the result will be the same.
Well, since your disposition of continents covers a huge amount of latitude, I don't see it in your model. Do you have some evidence for this?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 103 by Aspevik, posted 10-12-2009 11:34 AM Aspevik has replied

Replies to this message:
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 Message 112 by Aspevik, posted 10-13-2009 4:43 AM edge has replied

  
edge
Member (Idle past 1737 days)
Posts: 4696
From: Colorado, USA
Joined: 01-09-2002


Message 113 of 152 (530385)
10-13-2009 9:42 AM
Reply to: Message 112 by Aspevik
10-13-2009 4:43 AM


Re: An Initial Question
If the lighter mass searched to the point longest away from the core, this would be at Equator who are 15 kilometer wider than the line than the radius to the poles.
But so would the heavier mass...

This message is a reply to:
 Message 112 by Aspevik, posted 10-13-2009 4:43 AM Aspevik has replied

Replies to this message:
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edge
Member (Idle past 1737 days)
Posts: 4696
From: Colorado, USA
Joined: 01-09-2002


(1)
Message 117 of 152 (530524)
10-13-2009 11:37 PM
Reply to: Message 116 by Aspevik
10-13-2009 4:48 PM


Re: An Initial Question
Helge,
Du lage nei fornemme. You talk about an Ediacaran event using Mesozoic reconstructions.
You seem to think that graphite deposits were created by ancient lifeforms that wer splattered all over the earth by a meteorite.
Then you discuss Cretaceous orogenies that started in the Precambrian.
You have a random distribution of Edicaran fossils and draw an arbitrary line through them.
Then you propose a meteorite forming a basin that didn't exist until the Mesozoic.
Prior to that you had Precambrian events forming Tertiary gold deposits of various types, and lined them up by leaving out a large number of existing mines.
Now you are 'just moving Gondwana', but the map shows a complete rotation and translation into the modern Pacific Ocean which shows well-documented plate motions contrary to anything you suggest.
You completely ignore age dates and magnetic domain data.
You do not understand the kinetics of subduction nor accretion.
And yet your only evidence is a set of cutouts of the continents laid out on a table, arbitrarily joined to form a land mass at the equator which is not at the equator, and occurred at an unknown time in the past.
And you completely ignore what we post, all the while complaining that no one listens to you.
Denne er spr. Du slseri vre tid.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 116 by Aspevik, posted 10-13-2009 4:48 PM Aspevik has replied

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edge
Member (Idle past 1737 days)
Posts: 4696
From: Colorado, USA
Joined: 01-09-2002


Message 123 of 152 (530680)
10-14-2009 1:39 PM
Reply to: Message 121 by roxrkool
10-14-2009 12:54 PM


Re: An Initial Question
I am telling you that such a massive impact would cause a massive amount of ejecta to fly up into the atmosphere, which will in turn fall back to the earth. This ejecta will not simply fall back into the ocean basin(s), but will litter not only the surrounding ocean basin, but the nearby land masses -- unless you say that there were no nearby land masses... However, the iridium and other chemical signatures common to meteorite impacts can make it even further, possibly even around the entire planet.
The idea that carbon deposits (I'm guessing these are the Proterozoic graphite deposits) can be blasted across the planet and end up in pure carbon basins is pretty fantastic.

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 Message 121 by roxrkool, posted 10-14-2009 12:54 PM roxrkool has not replied

  
edge
Member (Idle past 1737 days)
Posts: 4696
From: Colorado, USA
Joined: 01-09-2002


Message 124 of 152 (530682)
10-14-2009 1:46 PM
Reply to: Message 122 by Aspevik
10-14-2009 1:12 PM


Re: An Initial Question
... Or the mass can fly throu the atmosphere and create the moon to an example?
This is a commonly referenced theory as to the origin of the moon.
You maybe have right, but I am still working with my thereory and I have to find out where things went wrong.
What went wrong?
I must also take a look under the carpet, where geologists have pushed into anything that does not fit into their own theory. There are more under there than outside the carpet. ;-)
Feel free. Maybe a lot of those things are wherever you hide the facts we have given you.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 122 by Aspevik, posted 10-14-2009 1:12 PM Aspevik has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 125 by Aspevik, posted 10-14-2009 6:12 PM edge has replied

  
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