Prophecy in the Bible - Theology of Double Fulfillment

there is no compelling reason to reject several sources of ancient incriptions and information in favor of the prefered 465 date.You dont think its appropriate to look at all the evidence? yes it is a direct refutation, but that doesnt bother me in the slightest. He is absolutely against the idea that scriptural prophecies are true so its in his interest to refute all evidence.

I know that and i havnt been contending that. As I had to point out the PaulK, i've been talking about Daniel chapter 11 which is the one you mentioned in your OP...i have been focused on that one chapter. But somewhere along the line, chpter 8 has been used to refute what i've been saying about chpt 11.Do you think chpt 8 and chpt 11 are about the same events? Chpter 8: 3-8 begins with the vision of the Ram, then the HeGoat. This is the prophecy of Alexander the Great defeating the Medeo Persian empire...then his kingdom being divided
3When I raised my eyes, then I saw, and, look! a ram standing before the watercourse, and it had two horns (Dual Medeo Persian empire)... 4I saw the ram making thrusts to the west and to the north and to the south, and no wild beasts kept standing before it, ...6And it kept coming all the way to the ram possessing the two horns, which I had seen standing before the watercourse; and it came running toward it in its powerful rage...and it proceeded to strike down the ram and to break its two horns, ...8And the male of the goats, for its part, put on great airs to an extreme; but as soon as it became mighty, the great horn was broken, and there proceeded to come up conspicuously four instead of it, toward the four winds of the heavens.But now if you look at Vs 9, its speaking about a new horn....not the 4 that came up 'conspicuously instead of' Alexander, but a new horn. This horn is said to come into the 'land of decoration' and desolate it. Remember that when Daniel wrote this prophecy, the 'land of decoration' or 'Judah' was already desolate. So the fulfillment of vs 9 and onward was obviously a long way into the future. How could the new 'horn' desolate something that was already ruined? Most of the inhabitants of Jerusalem were being held as captives in Babylon when this prophecy was written. Jerusalem was in ruins after Babylons earlier invasion.So Vs 9 would not occur until such a time as the 'land of decoration' was alive and active again. People didnt return to Jerusalem to rebuild it until until they were freed from babylon. some prophecies can have multiple fulfillments but i dont believe Chapter 8 of Daniel does.
This does not diminish anything from his prophecy because we are living in a part of his prophecy right now...the 'time of the end'So his prophecy is being accurately fulfilled. this is true, not all christians have the same understanding. I believe mine is the right one because of its source. I dont believe God uses every christian denomination and i dont believe they all teach from the bible. Jesus indicated that there would be one 'faithful and discreet slave' on the earth in the last days and I believe I found them.Just on the point about interpretation and specifically dates, the JW's use 'bible chronology' as the basis for their dates rather then the secular or historical dates for the reason that they firmly believe that the bible provides the correct answers with regard to the timing of events. That just shows that as an organization, they are willing to put the bible first even if it means they are discredited for doing so.

the relevence is that Vs 9 says that "And out of one of them there came forth another horn, a small one"The 'Them' is the kings of the north and south who sprang from Alexanders empire. The seulucide and Ptolomy kings....so vs 9 says that a new 'horn' emerges from those kings. This is why the prophecy should be considered as something different to the prophecy in Chpt 11. Chpt 11 is the progressive history of those kings of Daniel 8:8. The kings of the north and south are the seleucide and ptolomic kings that battled each other over many generation.however now a new horn emerges from them. Its the new horn that ends their rule and stands in place of them. This can only be the roman empire for they subjugated both egypt and syria.For this reason, chpt 8 vs 9 is speaking of a new time in history. The next few verses also show that this new horn is the one who completely destroys jerusalem and kills the leader of the covenant (Jesus Christ) Antiochus didnt do this. thats if you believe the 'time of the end' has been and gone. However this is impossible seeing the world is still struggling with opposing kings. The 'time of the end' is the time when God steps in to remove the kings of the earth. That cetainly hasnt happened yet and it certainly did not happen back in Antiochus's time.

I'm sure you're aware that different nations have used different calanders, well the bible presents a 'calander' of its own...it gives a chronology that can be likened to a calander and its timing is impecable. do you know anything about the chronology of the bible and how the events are timed? Can you give me an example of the chonology that you dont agree with? the bible is not meant to be easy to understand...even Daniel who wrote the prophecy openly admitted that he did not understand it. The reason for this is because man does not see things the way that God sees them. To understand it, you have to think like God. We think in physical terms...this is why bible writers often wrote in terms of physical things as a way to aid understanding. However, some things were obviously written in such a way that even the writer did not understand it. no i didnt mean to say something else here. Bible chronology is a legitimate way to understand the timing of ancient history. Secular historians often dont agree with each other and they often contradict each other...bible chronology may be discredited by secular sources, but who is to say the secular sources are correct?

Hi buzsaw, I think you're right on track in that the prophecy of John in Revelation is also speaking about events that will transpire in the 'last days' or as Daniel says 'the end times'They are definately linked in that Daniel wrote about things that would happen in the 'end times' and John wrote further things about what would happen in those times.I wouldnt go so far as to say that the physical nation of Isreal will be restored though. You might recall that God said he would make a new nation for himself out of every tribe and people and tongue and they would worship him with spirit and truth...this is christianity, not natural isreal. It cannot be natural Isreal for the reason that they rejected the Messiah and in doing so they rejected God himself.But Christianity has become the new nation of isreal and the restoration of that nation refers to its spiritual enlightenment and cleansing of true christianity during the last days.

in what way does the creation event have anything to do with chronology? interpretation belongs to God, not to man...this is why the bible was written in symbolism. You know there are many interpretation of the bible, this is because there are many people who have interpreted it. However, there is only on true interpretation and that interpretation can only come from God. Jesus told his diciples that the holy spirit would guide their understanding. Find the group of christians who are being led by Gods holy spirit and you will find the truth. I beleive that they are trully being led by Gods spirit. I have seen the things that they've accomplished and how they have cleaned the pagan ideas out of their teaching and how they live in accord with Gods laws.but i can't convince you of that...its something that each person must examine for themselves to be convinced of.

I wish i could explain myself as well as you do.If we recall the words of Joseph who interpreted the dreams of the Pharoah
"What the true God is doing he has caused Pharaoh to seeit helps us to see that understanding comes from God and God alone which is exactly why the bible was written with a measure of mystery.

yes absolutely, the diciples/Apostles were the ones to whom Jesus said at John 14:2 "In the house of my Father there are many abodes. Otherwise, I would have told YOU, because I am going my way to prepare a place for YOU."For these christians to rule with Christ in heaven, they would have to die on earth and then be resurrected into their heavenly calling to reign with him. I agree that the prophecies are most definitely about a 'restoration', however what benefit will a restored jerusalem be considering the Jews dont believe that the Messiah has been here, and considering they refused to follow the lead of the Messiah when he was here? Do you think that if Jesus presented himself again physically, they would all respond favorably?personally I dont beleive that would happen which is why i doubt very much that God would still attempt to make a kingdom of Priests (Exodus 19:6 And YOU yourselves will become to me a kingdom of priests and a holy nation.) out of them. Most notable is the fact that the messiah had given the prospect of becoming a 'kingdom of Priests' to the newly formed christian converts. John 1:11-12 "He came to his own home, but his own people did not take him in. 12However, as many as did receive him, to THEM he gave authority to become God’s childrenif Jesus established a heavenly kingdom, dont you think a global rulership would work better from that vantage point? Besides that, if the purpose was always to have an earthly center government/rulership, why does anyone need to go to heaven to rule as kings? What purpose would that serve? yes, but who is a 'jew'According to Pauls understanding he said at Romans 2:28 "he is not a Jew who is one on the outside, nor is circumcision that which is on the outside upon the flesh. But he is a Jew who is one on the inside, and his circumcision is that of the heart by spirit, and not by a written code. The praise of that one comes, not from men, but from God.
Paul was here saying that the person who serves God from the heart is a real Jew. And by a play on words he shows that such a one also receives praise from God for the word 'jew' means 'praise'Also what did he say at Galatians 3:29?
"Moreover, if YOU belong to Christ, YOU are really Abraham’s seed, heirs with reference to a promise"According to God, a true Jew is one who belongs to Christ and who serves God out of love. yes i totally agree with you on that.Can I ask if you believe we are in the 'end times' now? or do you think they are still future?

worshiping the WT society...does that require yearly pilgrimages to Brooklyn??

im making light of it becuase i dont want to get into any arguments.Im not here to argue.