Logical fallicies in the bible

After reading countless posts on this forum, and having similar conversations with literalits in real life, the conversation concerning biblical inerancy invariably leads to attempting to prove it scientficaly. Weather by creation science, or the misapplication of real science (whats the diffrence between those two anyway ), the result of that argument is allways the same, "were you there?", "were is your degree?", "have you ever dug a dinosaur up?" etc.I suppose those could be valid, I mean, I hold no Phd's, neither does my competitor. So how can we truely argue scientificaly?So I thought it may be more productive to discuss the bible on purely logical terms. I would like folks to, using only common sense, pose arguments for or against the bible, using LOGIC alone.No science in this thread please, this is not the point. I want to look at logical issues with the biblical texts. What can we say about the bible using only our common snese?I can think of a few right off the bat . But, I am really interested in what you folks have to say.

Those could be used as well, but Im more interested, in logical proofs or disproofs.For example, how Noah's ark defies common sense and Logic, no science, weights, messures etc. Simply speaking, how can a man cross the atlantic and pacific and gather thousands of animals with in the timespan of a year?How did species in the trees survive? Etc.Simple stuff, no science, just stuff that makes no logical sense.

Well dan,That's the catch see This one isn't about disproving evoloution. Heck, throw it out, it don't exist for these purposes. I simply want a socratic method aproach to discussing issues in the bible.certainly if we can engage someone in a point by point dialogue, the truth should come to light

hmmm.. maybe a bit to much. No geologic column necissary, lack of animal dispersion makes sense.Why did all the animals make it back over the ocean to their native homelands?Why did Kangaroos, finding it hard to swim to austrailia not just end up in africa for example.That's a pretty logical observation, and it dosn't need a geologic column. Just simple sense.

Ya but it makes sense if you remember how they killd the million persians. First of all the persians had wicker shields And as the story goes, the persians were dumb, and tried moving their entire naval fleet thrugh a narow pass, so the athenians were able to surround the boats on all side and pick them off like sitting ducks.Granted the story is improbable, and likely exagerated, but it makes a whole lot more sense (and alot more dramatic, and heroic), than nmost of the biblical war stories.... but I digress (WOW! no pun to Heroditus intended )[This message has been edited by Yaro, 08-28-2003]

Just thought Id bump the topic.Are no creationists biting the bit?Can they not logicaly prove some of the biblical nonsense we have just mentioned?

The intent of this thread is to adress the bible literalists on purely logical grounds.Often, the bible is sought to be disproven scientifically, leading to a lopsided debate depending on the extent of scientific knowledge on either side.So, I hoped that creationists would come in here prepeared to defend the bibles inerrancy on purely logical grounds. This is a thread with the intent of having a debate about bible errancy and inerrancy, that does not require extensive scientific or historical knowledge, but mearly pure common sense.Pointing out logical errors in the bible.So far, no creationsist has taken the bait.For example, how come things are created on different days in Genisis one and 2?

If this is the case then why the Bile? Why not Ovid, the Upanishads, the bahavda ghita? Why the bible? All the previous books are just as old, some older, so why the Bible over those?

Umm guys.... does this stuff actually apply to logical faliceis in the Bible?Im sure you can easely make it do so, but so far it's wandering off topic and is mostly just mark and mike sniping at each other . Entertaining I must admit

LOL. Are you sure? Maybe it only affects goats ?[This message has been edited by Yaro, 09-01-2003]

But the logical fallicie still persits, why should the child molester, who rapes a dozen chilldren, never gets caught, repents on his deathbed go to heaven.Yet some amazon indian.... pre-columbus! Who never hurt a fly, go to hell?If we can do no right, then what is the point of life? What is the point of this world? Is it some sort of spirituall lottery?Hmmm.... this brings me to a logical fallicie, why this world? Why life? What is the point of this world, if nothing we do in it can gain us heaven? Why the lottery, what's the purpose of it?Certainly god can make a dozen worlds, why didn't he just can this one and make a perfect one? Why the pain? Not only that, but why this futile dice game with soul selection?It seems like candyland, you ever play that boardgame? You just draw cards at random and advance your pice, no strategy, just pure luck. It's like god made the world, gave us all varying ideas of what's right and wrong, put one right answer "jesus", then just watches to see whos lucky enugh to figure it out. Sounds like a silly game to me.

ok...SO the animals came to Noah....How did the two toad sloth of madagascar come to noah from madagascar? Sloths are very slow, and the two toed variety have a very speciffic tree dwelling diet. Ho was such a creature able to cross thousands of miles from the east cost of affrica, across baren deserts (the sahara) to the middle east?After the flood, how did the two toed sloth make it's way back?The same question can be asked about other creatures, the Kangaroo for example, the north american prerie dog, the armadillo, the Cuban Anolie, the south american howling monkey, the koala bear, amongst countless others.I have seen creationits propose that Pangea (the supercontinent) existed durring the time of Noah, even if this is the case, animals crossing such vast distances and thrugh such varied ecosystems is absurd. Animals need certain conditions to survie, you can't expect a mudskipper, or frog, to cross the sahara desert. Such animals need wet climet, and subsist on certain diets.The proposition that the Animals came to the ark is ridiculous.

Perhapse I wasn't clear eughe what I ment by spirituall lottery:Not everyone has or will hear christ, and not everyone belives in the same God.There are plenty of people with different religions who have never heard of Christ, and they belive passionetly in their own Gods. These people didn't ask for that possition, they were born in cultures that promoted their belifes.Likewise all the native americans who died before columbus, countless african tribes, etc. All people who have never heard the Christ myth. So it is a lottery, either your born in the right place or not. Either you hear the story and belive it or you don't.Why did God set us up? If the pourpose of this world is for me to accept some tall tale, that I may never hear, or suffer eternal damnation, then I would rather that I never be born.Why the heck do christians keep having babies? You should stop, that way no more will risk hell.I don't understand why God didn't just make a new world. I mean, if you were baking an Apple pie, and you realized that you put rotten apples in it by accident, why the heck try and salvage the pie? Make a new one, that way God would have saved us all a bunch of trouble

Why does sin need to be atoned for?Why did God, pre-christ, require a calf?What logic is there behind killing an animal to apease a diety?That's one question.But more on the current topic:If God knows what is in our hearts, and judges us on our actions, then it is irelivant weather or not we belive in christ. For certainly God, can see in an athiests heart and understand what led him to belive as he does, and forgive him. Likewise he can see the heart of a Hindu, etc.A true loving God, would understand mans confusion, and cut him slack were necissary.Have you ever seen a small child do something compleatly wrong, with all the good intentions? Say, he tried to cook you some cookies, but because he is an inocent kinda messed up the recipy and burnt them a bit. You don't rebuke him for being ignrant, you don't cast him from your home and stop loving him, why does God do this to us?If I am a lowly, fallible human, who for whatever reason cannot accept the Christ story, wouldn't God understand my resoning? Wouldent he just say "well, he's just human, and I can see were he got the wrong idea. But hey, he was a good guy, and he knows better now so..."Get my drift?So what is the point of Christ at all?Why must there be blood sacriffice for sin? As mark42 says sometimes couldent God had "just had a beer and a pizza" for our sins

But Hell is hardly discipline. A father spanks his kid to better him, you can never be betterd by hell.Parent's will love a child no matter how much a bad seed he is, they will do all in their power to make him "better", but sometimes even that dosn't work. But guess what, they don't give up, and they never hate him.God makes it clear here and there that he hates those in Hell, and there is no chance of redeeming yourself in hell. So what the heck is the point of that? That's not punishment, that's uncaring cruelty on a very human scale (death penalty anyone?).Also, this dosn't adress the major question. Why earth at all?If God messed up this world, why didn't he just give up and start over? He could have just hit 'undo' and started over and got the perfect world he wanted. Why is he wasting all our time with this redemption BS?If he wanted us perfect so bad, he should have never let us get outta controll in the first place. Dosn't the fact that we went outta controll at all contradict God's omnipotence?And finally, woulden't it be a good idea to stop having babies? I mean, with out humans, no more hell right?