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Author Topic:   When was the Tower of Babel Made?
dragonstyle18
Inactive Member


Message 18 of 56 (54151)
09-06-2003 5:26 AM


towe of babel is old
Seeing as how Genesis chronologies are very incomplete, I would assume that the tower of Babel would have to have been built sometime just before the migration of humans to different continents via land bridges between 20 and 30 thousand years ago.

Replies to this message:
 Message 19 by John, posted 09-06-2003 11:02 AM dragonstyle18 has replied

dragonstyle18
Inactive Member


Message 20 of 56 (54184)
09-06-2003 2:53 PM
Reply to: Message 19 by John
09-06-2003 11:02 AM


Re: towe of babel is old
We don't know that for sure. Also, it may not have been that high anyway, it was the intent of the builders that set off God, not because they were actually going to reach heaven or something

This message is a reply to:
 Message 19 by John, posted 09-06-2003 11:02 AM John has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 21 by John, posted 09-06-2003 4:19 PM dragonstyle18 has not replied
 Message 22 by doctrbill, posted 09-06-2003 4:22 PM dragonstyle18 has replied
 Message 23 by Brian, posted 09-06-2003 4:44 PM dragonstyle18 has replied
 Message 25 by Yaro, posted 09-06-2003 6:05 PM dragonstyle18 has replied

dragonstyle18
Inactive Member


Message 26 of 56 (54215)
09-06-2003 6:11 PM
Reply to: Message 25 by Yaro
09-06-2003 6:05 PM


Re: the flood was when?
It was arrogance because it was against God's decree which was for humans to spread across the world and populate it after the flood. This symbolized their disobedience.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 25 by Yaro, posted 09-06-2003 6:05 PM Yaro has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 27 by Yaro, posted 09-06-2003 6:14 PM dragonstyle18 has replied

dragonstyle18
Inactive Member


Message 28 of 56 (54218)
09-06-2003 6:16 PM
Reply to: Message 23 by Brian
09-06-2003 4:44 PM


The tower of babel was not in Jericho. See Genesis 11:1.
Also it does not specify what happened to the tower itself. It could have been competely destroyed. It doesn't say other than the building was stopped and alot can happen in 20-30 thousand years. Don't you think a project like that having been abandoned would have been stripped for parts and materials. Of course, what is the need for preservation.
Also to John, the project was organized and there isn't any way to say there was not enough people as we don't know any of the dimensions of the building so who can say what is and what is not enough.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 23 by Brian, posted 09-06-2003 4:44 PM Brian has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 36 by John, posted 09-06-2003 6:50 PM dragonstyle18 has replied
 Message 38 by Brian, posted 09-06-2003 6:58 PM dragonstyle18 has not replied

dragonstyle18
Inactive Member


Message 29 of 56 (54219)
09-06-2003 6:18 PM
Reply to: Message 27 by Yaro
09-06-2003 6:14 PM


Re: the flood was when?
It is specifically decreed in Genesis 8:16 right after the flood.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 27 by Yaro, posted 09-06-2003 6:14 PM Yaro has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 32 by Yaro, posted 09-06-2003 6:27 PM dragonstyle18 has replied

dragonstyle18
Inactive Member


Message 30 of 56 (54220)
09-06-2003 6:20 PM
Reply to: Message 22 by doctrbill
09-06-2003 4:22 PM


quote
"The only indication of the time at which the Tower of Babel was erected, we find in the name of Phaleg (Genesis 11:10-17), the grandnephew of Heber; this places the date somewhere between 101 and 870 years after the Flood. The limits are so unsatisfactory, because the Greek Version differs in its numbers from the Massoretic text."
All that says is how far after the flood was Babel. I'm saying the flood was 20-30 thousand years ago.

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 Message 22 by doctrbill, posted 09-06-2003 4:22 PM doctrbill has not replied

dragonstyle18
Inactive Member


Message 31 of 56 (54222)
09-06-2003 6:24 PM
Reply to: Message 22 by doctrbill
09-06-2003 4:22 PM


I'm not sure I answered your question. Please elaborate if I have not

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 Message 22 by doctrbill, posted 09-06-2003 4:22 PM doctrbill has not replied

dragonstyle18
Inactive Member


Message 33 of 56 (54226)
09-06-2003 6:33 PM
Reply to: Message 22 by doctrbill
09-06-2003 4:22 PM


Okay, now i think I realize what you are saying. You're saying that there is not enough time between the flood and Babel to get enought people based on the geanealogies, right? Here let me refer you to something I said in another forum,
"Even so, when it says,"when X was Y years old he became the father of Z," this is the english translation. When read in hebrew it can also mean that when X was Y years old he became the father of a "family line which included or culminated in Z." Often times, names which are not especially noteable are left out of the genealogies. This is widely accepted by Bible scholars, who are both believing and non-believing, as an acceptable reading. It is the general acceptance that there are gaps in the genealogies of genesis. Parallels can be seen elsewhere in the Bible like in a geanealogy in Mathew 1:8 which we know left names out because the same genealogy in 1 Chronicles 3:10-12 has more names and is more complete. These lists are meant to be adequate"
Hope this helps

This message is a reply to:
 Message 22 by doctrbill, posted 09-06-2003 4:22 PM doctrbill has replied

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dragonstyle18
Inactive Member


Message 34 of 56 (54227)
09-06-2003 6:42 PM
Reply to: Message 32 by Yaro
09-06-2003 6:27 PM


Re: the flood was when?
Sorry I mean to say Genesis 8:17 "Bring out every kind of living creature that is with you-the birds, the animals, and all the creatures that move along the ground-so they can multiply on the earth and be fruitful and increase in number upon it"
Instead they decide to all settle in one place and start building. Is it really necessary to get nit picky about the why it was stopped? Are we not focusing on the if?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 32 by Yaro, posted 09-06-2003 6:27 PM Yaro has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 35 by Yaro, posted 09-06-2003 6:44 PM dragonstyle18 has not replied
 Message 46 by doctrbill, posted 09-06-2003 9:09 PM dragonstyle18 has replied

dragonstyle18
Inactive Member


Message 37 of 56 (54235)
09-06-2003 6:57 PM
Reply to: Message 36 by John
09-06-2003 6:50 PM


I don't believe I said it was a few feet high. It was probably fairly tall but what I am saing did it reach all the way to the "heavens"? no

This message is a reply to:
 Message 36 by John, posted 09-06-2003 6:50 PM John has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 39 by dragonstyle18, posted 09-06-2003 7:05 PM dragonstyle18 has not replied
 Message 40 by John, posted 09-06-2003 7:08 PM dragonstyle18 has not replied

dragonstyle18
Inactive Member


Message 39 of 56 (54240)
09-06-2003 7:05 PM
Reply to: Message 37 by dragonstyle18
09-06-2003 6:57 PM


By the way, this may be a little off topic but it is accepted that the most probable type of tower that babel was, was a ziggurat. Over thirty ruins of ziggrats have been found in Mesopotamia

This message is a reply to:
 Message 37 by dragonstyle18, posted 09-06-2003 6:57 PM dragonstyle18 has not replied

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dragonstyle18
Inactive Member


Message 42 of 56 (54243)
09-06-2003 7:10 PM
Reply to: Message 36 by John
09-06-2003 6:50 PM


Let me revise what I said about the date. I originally supposed the flood was 20-30 thousand years ago. What I should have said about babel is that it was sometime later as seems to be the case if what you say about brick and mortar is true. I already adressed that it could have been many different indeterminate amounts of time later via my post on incomplete geneologies

This message is a reply to:
 Message 36 by John, posted 09-06-2003 6:50 PM John has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 43 by John, posted 09-06-2003 7:17 PM dragonstyle18 has replied

dragonstyle18
Inactive Member


Message 45 of 56 (54271)
09-06-2003 8:52 PM
Reply to: Message 43 by John
09-06-2003 7:17 PM


well, I recently found a source which seems to suggest that we are not as genetically diverse as everyone has been saying. I've been trying to defend against the idea that we are so genetically diverse but perhaps I don't need to. I posted it on another thread. It seems to be from a Harvard doctor
"Scientists have observed that there is a major problem in the human population that doesn't fit Darwinian theory. The genetic diversity of humans is much less than that expected from a population that theoretically speciated several hundred thousands years ago. According to Dr. Maryellen Ruvolo (Harvard University) "It's a mystery none of us can explain." Their conclusion is that the human population must have went through a "population bottleneck" of 10,000 or fewer individuals from 400,000 to 12,000 years ago. However, Jan Klein (Max Planck Institute, Tbingen, Germany) and Dr. Francisco Ayala (University of California, Irvine) say that a population of 10,000 does not represent a bottleneck, since this is the standard breeding population of many species. Another alternative is that modern humans did not evolve from apes, but were created more recently than 400,000 years ago. Many recent studies support this hypothesis (see below). (Gibbons, A. 1995. The mystery of humanity's missing mutations. Science 267: 35-36.) "

This message is a reply to:
 Message 43 by John, posted 09-06-2003 7:17 PM John has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 47 by Coragyps, posted 09-06-2003 9:22 PM dragonstyle18 has replied
 Message 54 by John, posted 09-07-2003 12:14 AM dragonstyle18 has not replied

dragonstyle18
Inactive Member


Message 48 of 56 (54280)
09-06-2003 9:24 PM
Reply to: Message 46 by doctrbill
09-06-2003 9:09 PM


Genesis 11:4 "Then they said, "Come let us build oursleves a city, with a tower that reaches to the heavens, so that we may make a name for ourselves and not be scattered over the face of the whole earth.""
Sounds like disobedience to me

This message is a reply to:
 Message 46 by doctrbill, posted 09-06-2003 9:09 PM doctrbill has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 50 by Coragyps, posted 09-06-2003 9:33 PM dragonstyle18 has not replied
 Message 51 by doctrbill, posted 09-06-2003 9:41 PM dragonstyle18 has replied

dragonstyle18
Inactive Member


Message 49 of 56 (54281)
09-06-2003 9:31 PM
Reply to: Message 47 by Coragyps
09-06-2003 9:22 PM


the other thread is under flood geology, it's the one that starts off with ancient chinese documents. The thread takes a detour

This message is a reply to:
 Message 47 by Coragyps, posted 09-06-2003 9:22 PM Coragyps has not replied

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