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Author | Topic: Gender and Humor | |||||||||||||||||||||||
dronestar Member Posts: 1417 From: usa Joined: Member Rating: 7.0 |
However, most homour, at the heart has some body falling over a banana and getting laughed at. Hmm. Interesting. Perhaps, if true, it's another way of saying, generally, men simply don't have the ability or don't need to repress laughing at other's misfortunes. Women, with their nurturing instincts, do. It might explain the duality.
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dronestar Member Posts: 1417 From: usa Joined: Member Rating: 7.0 |
Woody Allen's "What you always wanted to know about sex but were afraid to ask." Yep, funny film. Gene Wilder with the sheep in fishnet stockings is screamingly funny. I love Allen's earlier, sillier movies. I expected everyone's list to include at least one mel brooks, one woody allen, or one monty python fim. Surprisingly, not every one did. To me, it is a shame that the media give Coulter's hatred so much attention. I am irritated that there are so many tablet/rags at the supermarket checkout line that feeds American stupidity/hatred.
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dronestar Member Posts: 1417 From: usa Joined: Member Rating: 7.0 |
aiki writes: but humour is extremely important in our romantic relationships Comic Jon Lovitz once said (paraphrasing): "Woman SAY they want a funny guy. Now, let me tell you, I am a funny guy. So why aren't women chasing me?" Thanks for your reply. I know you wrote you are only speaking for yourself and close female friends, but if humor is SO powerful a bonding-agent, then ultimately, why doesn't it seem more reciprocal? This thread hardly represents all men all over the world, but it does seem to indicate that woman (as perceived by men) are not as funny as men. That would SEEM to indicate that humor is LESS important to a male-female relationship. PS; OMG, Spinal Tap is FUNNY!!! On my top ten list.
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dronestar Member Posts: 1417 From: usa Joined: Member Rating: 7.0 |
Women need to be attractive, men need to be funny. Hee. Perhaps this can be the concluding statement to my thread, thanks.
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dronestar Member Posts: 1417 From: usa Joined: Member Rating: 7.0 |
This may shock you, but for heterosexual women, men are attractive to look at. Not all of them by any means, but lots of them. Physical attraction is kind of necessary if you're going to have any motivation to go to bed with someone, especially if that's all you're planning to do with them. However, if you're looking for/hoping for a relationship rather than just a quick bunk-up, then you'll look a bit more deeply than appearances, and attributes like being funny become more important. In my experience, that works for men as well as women. None of my male friends have relationships with humourless, boring women, however attractive. They might have slept with some, but the women they fall in love with and settle down with are the ones with whom they can relax, laugh, be themselves. Orrr, . . . perhaps THIS can be the concluding statement to my thread. Thanks for sharing aiki.
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dronestar Member Posts: 1417 From: usa Joined: Member Rating: 7.0 |
Hey Misha,
I saw Paula Poundstone in Buffalo yearS ago. She was, . . . umm, . . . humorous.I like Ellen, but she doesn't make me laugh out loud, from the gut. "12 Chairs". Wow an oldie. Saw it first time many months ago. Interesting and sometimes humorous, . . . but top five on your list? Hmm, ooookay.
I guess i find wittiness funny in women and either wittiness or stupidity funny in males. I sometimes ask my male friends if their wife or girlfriend makes them laugh out loud. (Perhaps I should have polled THAT question in this thread.) After a few well thought seconds, my friends will usually answer a safe, "uhh, . . . sometimes". I hate to go all Oprah here, but the question needs to be asked, are women just as funny as men, however, men just are afraid to laugh, to show vulnerability to a . . . female? Umm, I don't think so. For the record, I would greatly prefer a girfriend who is smarter than I, funnier than I, makes more money than I, and is much, much, much, more beautiful than I.
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dronestar Member Posts: 1417 From: usa Joined: Member Rating: 7.0 |
Hi Rrhain,
Carol Burnett and Lucille Ball from television I have agreed with many posters with their examples of woman who are indeed funny, including yours above. But, I think the "highly scientific consensus" of this forum, is that, while woman CAN be funny, GENERALLY they are just not AS funny as men (as perceived by men). Seriously, while this thread has mostly been opinionated BS, I continue to wonder if real studies have already been done to quantify this notion.
9 to 5 What's Up, Doc? I agree, they're funny. What's Up, Doc?, maybe in my top ten. I hope I have not appeared as a misogynist with this thread. I love women. Why, even my mother is one.
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dronestar Member Posts: 1417 From: usa Joined: Member Rating: 7.0 |
Nitpicks ahoy . . .
Stand up on the other hand is solely one's ability to create funny without the aid of anything or anyone else. But don't SOME comics hone their act over time so expertly that their act doesn't vary from one venue to another? Isn't this also just rote, or merely acting a role? If this is true, then it seems we cannot use just "stand-up" comic as the ONLY litmus test of being funny, correct?
Burnett and Ball were great at playing characters and had excellent timing and delivery. Neither of them did stand up. Hmm. It seems to me you might be down-playing the importance of timing and delivery in comedy too much. But as a non-comic, I'll acquiesce to your judgement. FWIW, didn't Burnett do "funny" improv with her television audience before the TV show started? Bottom line, for this subject, we are nearly in full agreement. But I look forward to the eventual day when we do find ourselves at opposite spectrums and joust. And when that day comes, . . . you're a dead man Oni, . . . a dead man!
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dronestar Member Posts: 1417 From: usa Joined: Member Rating: 7.0 |
Hey Oni,
So, it seems funny stand-up material (which could have been co-written or ghost written), performed/honed flawlessly over time can be successfully delivered by not-so-funny-but-excellent-performers/actors. As per Mod's summary above of Hitchen's video, Mod writes "Men are faster than women". (I still haven't watched the video, I need to use my brother's home computer later) If this is true, maybe stand up comedy should be somewhat less weighted to measure GENDER humor, because, for reasons above, it does NOT NECESSARILY show quick wit . . . If this is also true, than perhaps we should more weight interviews or talk show environments where the absence of scripted environments COULD lend a crutch to those who are less funny. Can we test this hypothesis? In your opinion, how funny would your examples of funny women (Sarah Silverman, Andi Smith, Tina Fey) be in interviews or as talk show hosts? Compared to Rivers, Ellen Degeneress, Rosie O-Donnel? (Regardless of how unfunny you think they are, they are more quicker-witted than the average person, correct?). Alas, should quick-wit be the overall measure of funny? E.g. Lucy Ball, great comedic actor, but crappy interviewee. Thusly, not a funny person. Do you agree with any of this? Edited by dronester, : used correct science terminology Edited by dronester, : clarity Edited by dronester, : more clarity
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dronestar Member Posts: 1417 From: usa Joined: Member Rating: 7.0 |
If we are gonna be publicly psycho-analysed I hope I am not the only one who takes part in your survey I'm in.
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dronestar Member Posts: 1417 From: usa Joined: Member Rating: 7.0 |
Oni,
IMO, it has nothing to do with the mechanics of comedy and EVERYTHING to do with audience reaction. Thanks for the detailed and enlightening reply. While you corrected my misperceptions, I am still thinking of the Nietzsche quote: "Those who know, but don't do, don't really know." Thus, no matter how detailed your replies, in the end, I still can't quite imagine how comics do it. I am somewhat envious, as I think the feeling of wowing a BIG crowd must be like some super-seasoned-curly-fries-orgasm. You are lucky. Thanks for the top 100 list. I think it stands as evidence that woman are perceived as less funny than men. I should have included that in my original post. I see Albert Brooks as # 32. I think he is very funny, witty guy. Perhaps his movie, "Lost in America'" would be in my top 10 comedy list. Henny Youngman, only #47? Go figure. drnstr
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dronestar Member Posts: 1417 From: usa Joined: Member Rating: 7.0 |
In terms of doing the survey yourself? In which case please do (so that I am not the only gullible idiot to fall for Mod's attempt to embarass us all) I had hoped Mod was gonna create the list, he seemed to be into the topic, but I'd be happy to try. I think the way the questions are structured need to be accurately phrased. Why don't I run them by you, Mod, or anyone else who cares to fine tune their usefulness before we give it a bit of the go. Should it be in a new thread?
Or do you mean that you are "in" to psycho-analysing me? In which case - YIPES!! Orrrr, perhaps I just want to coordinate what we are wearing for our big coming-out-of-the-closet party. Stripes or paisley dear?
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dronestar Member Posts: 1417 From: usa Joined: Member Rating: 7.0 |
Hi Mod,
I think it would be cool and most appropriate to create a survey and then analyse it in the EvC forum as sort of a class/community project. However, my single concern about this type of survey is not enough people, especially woman, would participate to reach an accurate conclusion. (that women might not care to take such a survey would be indicative of something [maybe perceived male biased questions?], but mostly would just indicate that the forum has so few female participants) Except for question #4, I think it would be best to include only closed-ended answers for ease of analysis. And I think a new thread would alert participants who may not be re-checking this thread. Per your and Straggler's suggestions, the survey might have the following questions: 1. What sex are you: M F 2. What type of humor do you most enjoy: LOWBROW HIGHBROW ALL NONE 3. How important do you rate your partner's humor: LOW MEDIUM HIGH 4. Why (one brief sentence please)? Can you or anyone else fine-tune/expand/compact these questions before we start? Any flaws I am missing? Thanks. drnstr Edited by dronester, : clarity
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dronestar Member Posts: 1417 From: usa Joined: Member Rating: 7.0 |
Nothing spoils a romance so much as sense of humour in the woman or the want of it in the man - Oscar Wilde It appears this thread's participants highlighted accurate guesses that had previously been researched. Collectively I'd say, our opinions were mostly on course (see below). Thanks for all who submitted their two cents. Using Scholar.Google I found 128,000 studies on "humour and gender". I read/skimmed a few dozen and found this one most related to my thread. However, there probably are too many other studies that may be more accurate to my thread or are much more fresher for me to seriously claim the one below is the final word on the subject. I've highlighted a few interesting passages below: Gender and Humour: Beyond a JokeJ Hay Some stereotypes/untested thoughts:
Maltz and Borker Tannen claim that men and women use language differently because they are socialised into different cultures. From childhood, boys and girls play in different groups and in different ways. Girls play emphasises solidarity and teaches them to use language to create and maintain friendships to criticise others in acceptable ways and to interpret accurately the speech of other girls. The groups boys play in however are hierarchical and competitive. Through this play, boys learn to assert a position of dominance attract and maintain an audience and assert oneself when other speakers have the floor. It is clear that the culture into which women are socialised is very much solidarity based, whereas there is an emphasis in mens culture on things which reinforce power and status. Grotjahn suggested that women do not tell jokes because joke telling is an aggressive act. Kramarae (1987) believes, . . . In short, women have to understand malehumour, men do not have to understand women's. Women are said to have a sense of humour, not if they produce humour, but ifthey respond to and appreciate it. Coser, McGhee, Barreca Coser GoodmanWomen just do not attempt to be humorous in a mixed group set ting and the reason seems to be that women are neither expected nor trained to joke in this culture . . . attempting a witty remark is . . . an aggressive act (Pollio and Edgerly 1976) The woman of today had better not show her wit too obviously ifshe is young and intelligent for she will scare the contemporary male who is easily frightened in his masculinity (Grotjahn 1957) Some Findings:
Kottho (1986) . . . three very interesting hypotheses: 1. Men more often than women joke at the cost of others 2. Women joke about themselves and their experiences For them joking is a means of establishing common ground and intimacy 3. Women actively encourage the success of the speaker by providing support through laughter. Men do this less frequently especially when the speaker is a woman Dreher (1982)studied four conversations and found that women laughed more than men and that both men and women laughed more at men than at women. Mitchell (1985)Men told a higher percentage of openly aggressive jokes than women and seemed to enjoy competitive joke telling sessions. Women rarely participated in these sessions. Jenkins (1985) observes that men's humour is characterised asself aggrandizing one upmanship. They more often use formulaic jokes which are markedly separate from the surrounding discourse and which involve a performance. This establishes them as credible performers and gives them an audience. Conclusion
Women emphasise interaction, solidarity and community. Whereas men emphasise status and competition. Men seem to use more formulaic jokes and use performance based to claim an audience and gain status. Womens humour is more context dependent, involves their audience, and is more supportive and personal. http://74.125.155.132/scholar?q=cache:rZ40U0x90BwJ:schola...
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dronestar Member Posts: 1417 From: usa Joined: Member Rating: 7.0 |
Hi Rrhain,
For me, when posts are too lengthy, repetitive or insulting, the points are sometimes unclear. The following are four items that seem to be unresolved. Can you help? . . . 1. I am disadvantaged from offering my full opinion, I cannot view videos at work. It seems strange we are having so many posts, that are so lengthy, without citing/discussing the actual joke in question. For those on the forum that doesn't know the "Donkey Punch" joke, can you or Oni supply it in writing (please forum participants, no more youtube supporting evidence without brief summaries). Thanks.
Nobody is saying they should be thrown in jail. 2. Correct, no one has asserted that any laws were broken. And since no one was arrested for telling this joke, can we conclude the joke is less caustic, less inciteful, than an ACTUAL hate crime? If true, is it POSSIBLE the lady is over-reacting? Which leads to the broader item #3 . . .
Sometimes, one's words take a life of their own and what you thought was just a statement made in a certain context actually finds itself in a much different arena. 3. It seems you are arguing from a slippery-slope POV. Thusly: IF the public can become inured to crass/racist/sexist "jokes", it MIGHT eventually lead our society down a moral-sewer. If this is the only thing you are cautioning, than I think many people can understand your concern. But in a world filled with such real dire problems (starvation, disease, torture, military spending, illegal and immoral wars), being outraged over a seemingly inappropriate or failed "joke" may be fighting a mighty disproportionate mole-hill. Do you agree?
The issue is whether or not this was comedy to begin with. 4. Oni has expressed, if a comic is successful, that CONCLUSIVELY means his jokes ARE funny (Carrot-top sends his thank-filled gratitude to you Oni). Thus, NO further analysis is necessary/needed. Any specific/occasional bad "joke" will have the CONSEQUENCE of silence/booing. The failed "joke" will be deleted, or else the comic will no longer be funny and/or successful. (It seems very much like the self-corrective process in science.) Do you disagree with this specific point? Thanks,d
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