Who should we hate?

I agree. I'm glad you finally realize that. If the threats were coming from people in other countries, perhaps the FBI would not have taken them so seriously. But they put that lady into the witness protection program, so presumably there were more immanent threats, eh? I am aware of that. But is not the speech of that lady in Washington protected? Are we going to let extremists, using death threats, dictate what is protected speech and what is not protected--in this country? What, are you expecting me to condone death threats because it is not a Muslim that made it?Get a grip.

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Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.

So we deal with eminent threats. If, that is, the FBI actually placed her in the witness protection program. Almost all speech is protected.Her speech is protected. The Government cannot restrict either speech within certain limitations. If an individual can be identified and shown to be inciting violence then we can try to use the legal system as recourse.What we cannot do is indict whole classes of people, religions or speech.It is only when things move beyond speech and into action that we need to begin to worry. Honestly I don't much expect anything from you other than that you support your positions.I don't think death threats should ever be condoned but many of them should be ridiculed.

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Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

Coyote, please, I have already mentioned this; Molly Norris is not in the witness protection program. She is in hiding, under the advice of the FBI and with their co-operation. That may amount to much the same thing, but she is not in the WPP.Of course, that sucks even more for her; she gets no financial aid.The thing is, when it comes to death threats, what do you want the US government or law enforcement agencies to do? Norris probably just received anonymous death threats by mail. What exactly can be done about that? Nothing I'm guessing. Richard Dawkins gets death threats too and I've not heard of any prosecutions there either. That's because it's very difficult to prosecute these things.So again, I have to ask, what exactly do you want to do?Mutate and Survive

You just go ahead and ridicule the Muslims and their death treats all you want.See where it gets you.Maybe then you'll understand the nature of the problem, eh?Maybe the FBI can find a nice safe place for you too.

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Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.

Perhaps some efforts could be made to find those making the death threats?That's not too much to ask is it?Or are death threats going to become acceptable if issued by the "correct" folks?

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Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.

If an individual can be determined to have made a credible threat, then there are mechanisms in place to take action.An individual even if it is a corporate individual.That is the key point.Unless the person making the credible threat is an identifiable individual and the individual is in some place where we have jurisdiction and there is actually a possibility of carrying out the threat, there is little that can or should be done.So far I have not been convinced that there is a problem.

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Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

That in itself is a problem.

Such as? What's your method of tracing anonymous hate mail? Ouija board perhaps? Hold on, let me consult my Magic 8-Ball... hmm... "Outlook not so good". Oh well. You seem to be assuming that no such efforts have been made. In actual fact, you haven't got a clue what threats have been received, how many there have been, what form they took, etc. In fact, neither of us know much about the details of whatever has driven Norris into hiding. For all we know, the FBI may be hot on the extremists' trail as we speak. Or they may simply have received a number of anonymous threats through the mail, in which case they will not be able to trace them and, yes, it very much is too much to ask that they do the impossible.People sending murderous threats tend not to leaving a return address you know. What the fuck?Which part of "The only way is to address any individual case as an individual case. Where people break the law, regardless of religion, they should be prosecuted." is confusing to you?You do realise don't you, that if you keep this up, you'll spontaneously transform into Buzsaw?Mutate and Survive

Who else do we blame other than the terrorist groups?That seems pretty evident. They should be punished to the full extent of the law. US law for those committed here, and international law for those committed elsewhere.- Oni

I agree completely. First really sensible response all night.

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Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.

Hi, Granny. In an earlier discussion on this forum, this same theme came up under gun rights.I understood the consensus to be that gun control is appropriate because guns are deemed to be "inherently dangerous" objects, or something like that.So, given that you seem to recognize a sort of pattern of correlation between Islam and violence, don't you agree that it makes sense to consider deeming Islam an "inherently dangerous object," just as guns are, and thereby appropriate to regulate in some ways?Edited by Bluejay, : "gun" not "run"

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-Bluejay (a.k.a. Mantis, Thylacosmilus)Darwin loves you.

How about the people who actually commit crimes? How about the due process of the law?

Er, Coyote, What the hell were we arguing about last night then, because that's just the same as what I said. Jeez...Mutate and Survive

Hi Bluejay, No. Islam is not a weapon, it is a set of ideas. You can't try and make an idea illegal. Like it or not, Islam is an essential component of the lives of millions of my fellow citizens and yours. We can't tell people that their religion is on some kind of hit list, that's just unacceptable.Handguns (as opposed to sporting rifles and such) only exist for the purpose of shooting people. The only peaceful use for them is not shooting them. Islam can be used for peace. Guns can't. Even when used in defence, they only exist for killing and maiming.I think we need to remember that most Muslims are just... boring. Really dull and boring. They get up, have breakfast, go to work, and do all the other boring ass things that the rest of us do. Only a minority are extreme enough to be troublesome and frankly, I don't think that they are a serious enough threat to require that we abandon our much prized principles and freedoms.Mutate and Survive

"They" are not a governmental force. "They" carry no force of law. It's literally impossible for them to deny you your right to free speech.You're being absurd. Stop crying and moaning about pissed off people saying pissed off things. Or don;t you respect their right to free speech? Can't they say "Coyote's an asshole, I hope he gets ass cancer and dies?" Sure, it makes them dicks, but saying "oh, I would so toss a grenade in your bedroom" doesn't exactly have much effect.Unless you're a chickenshit crybaby who's afraid of a bunch of incompetent cave dwelling nimrods whose grand master plan to topple the United States was to fly some planes into a few buildings, killing a whopping 3000 people - while awful and terrible and a massive crime, that wasn't exactly a well thought-out plan if they intended to do anything more than make us really mad. Subsequent "plots" have included car bombs using completely the wrong kind of fertilizer and, no kidding, exploding shoes and underwear. These guys are about as effective at toppling regimes and establishing radical Muslim supremacy as the fucking Legion of Doom. Except in caves, not a swamp.How can you even think these morons are a threat to your freedom of speech?! You might as well say that soccer hooligans threaten each others right to free speech, since they fight people who cheer for the wrong team. These guys aren't even in your own country with the exception of the few "terror cells" they've managed to "infiltrate" into our society, and we're not exactly talking James Bond-level guys here.Check it out:Osama bin Laden is a chickenshit geezer, a repugnant troglodyte who scorns such modern inventions as bathing and not living in fucking caves, and will likely die a fucking virgin as his kidneys fail. He's a pathetic loser who actually thinks his little band of malcontents can significantly fuck with a superpower by blowing up their underwear.Watch now as I'm not arrested and not blown up.I don't feel that my freedom of speech has been curtailed by some bearded yahoo with a parasite infestation up his ass.In fact, you might notice that other countries (Canada, lots of Europe) have laws against hate speech. In some nations it's actually illegal (Ireland, as I recall) to say anything bad or disrespectful about a religion. But I don't live there. And guess what? The laws of foreign powers and the opinions of foreign citizens affects my freedom of speech only insofar as I, personally, allow it to. Why the fuck should I, living in California, give a damn about whether some jackhole in Assfuckistan thinks I should or shouldn't be able to say something? I don't spout hate speech because I think it's ethically wrong, but Fred Phelps seems to get away with it just fine, regardless of the laws and opinions of foreign powers, and even despite the opinions of other Americans.The extremists are chilling free speech in their own countries, because in many cases they actually have power there; politicians who agree that insulting Islam is a punishable offense, or the tried-and-true tossing of incendiary underwear into the offender's bedroom. Saudi Arabians don't have much free speech - talk shit about a Saudi Prince over there and you get the black-bag treatment.But the Saudi King doesn't have any power over here. Osama doesn't have any power over here. Iranian law doesn't work over here.There is absolutely no rational sense behind claiming that Muslim extremists (or anyone other than your own government) are taking away your freedom of speech, Coyote. Find your balls - they only get to control what you say to precisely the extent that you let them.