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Author Topic:   Science: A Method not a Source
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1497 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 11 of 177 (589002)
10-29-2010 4:39 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Jon
10-29-2010 10:49 AM


A fundamental equivocation
The flaw I perceive in your OP is that you start out talking about one thing and then try to prove something else.
the use of the Bible and other 'historical' literature to generate knowledge about the physical world
You then go on to a story of a young man using the scientific method to find out what his tribe's origin stories are.
Those are two completely different things. The Bible is a perfectly permissible, scientific source for information about the origin stories and religious practices of ancient Jews and early Christians. It's frequently used this way by investigators of all religions. The Bible is a completely illegitimate source for geology, human history, biology, cosmology, and the like, and there is by definition absolutely nothing scientific at all about misusing it for this purpose.
Utlimately this is representative of the faulty thinking that science is about particular sources, when in actuality, science is about the method of manipulating and interpreting those sources.
Absolutely wrong. Science is both a means of deriving conclusions from sources and a means of judging which sources produce reliable information about the physical world, and the context in which that information is probative. Science is a source - it's a source of information about the reliability of sources. If your young man fails to apprehend that his parents are the Villiage Liars, or apprehends it but accepts their testimony at face value regardless, he's failing to appropriately apply the scientific method. Ultimately, the scientific method is one of skepticism about sources. Your position is one of complete credulity towards a particular, unreliable source. Nothing about that is scientific.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Jon, posted 10-29-2010 10:49 AM Jon has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 15 by Jon, posted 10-29-2010 5:07 PM crashfrog has replied

  
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1497 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 17 of 177 (589010)
10-29-2010 5:27 PM
Reply to: Message 15 by Jon
10-29-2010 5:07 PM


Re: A false equation
I believe you are conflating the epistemological framework known as empiricism with the methodological approach toward rational understanding of the empirical world known as science.
And it seems obvious to me that you're setting up a false dichotomy. Science is empiricism. Empiricism done at a sufficient level of rigor is science.
There are many empiricists who are not scientists.
There are no scientists who are not empiricists.
None of this, of course, addresses my actual point. Of course that's true to form for you.

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 Message 15 by Jon, posted 10-29-2010 5:07 PM Jon has not replied

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 Message 21 by New Cat's Eye, posted 10-29-2010 7:09 PM crashfrog has not replied

  
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1497 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 32 of 177 (589047)
10-30-2010 12:06 AM
Reply to: Message 30 by Jon
10-29-2010 11:50 PM


Re: The Users as Distinct from the Method
By refusing to examine and incorporate other evidence they are, in effect, rejecting the application of the scientific method to this evidence
What "evidence" in the Bible do you feel is being ignored, and to what field of science would the Bible, in your view, contribute? Be specific.

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 Message 30 by Jon, posted 10-29-2010 11:50 PM Jon has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 33 by Jon, posted 10-30-2010 1:00 AM crashfrog has replied

  
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1497 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 34 of 177 (589053)
10-30-2010 2:20 AM
Reply to: Message 33 by Jon
10-30-2010 1:00 AM


Re: The Users as Distinct from the Method
None. Where did I say otherwise?
I took it from context. Did I misunderstand? What evidence were you referring to, then?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 33 by Jon, posted 10-30-2010 1:00 AM Jon has not replied

  
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