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Author Topic:   Science: A Method not a Source
nwr
Member
Posts: 6412
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 16 of 177 (589009)
10-29-2010 5:17 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Jon
10-29-2010 10:49 AM


Re: The Bible and the Scientific Method
Jon writes:
Is proper science about the methodology used and not the source of the inputs?
It's about both.
Jon writes:
Does use of the Bible and other histories represent an appropriate application of these methodologies?
That depends on what they are used for.
Jon writes:
This young man, in his search for knowledge, has investigated the only thing he has the means for investigating and has come to a tentative conclusion that is based only on the evidence available and requires as few assumptions as possible. In every shape and form, this is precisely the way the modern scientific method has been designed to function.
Sorry, but what you described does not seem much like science.
Science isn't the answering of isolated questions. Nor is it the acquiring of individual facts. Rather, science is a systematic study of a range of related phenomena.
Jon writes:
Anyone who would argue otherwise would have to accept the following as true of the scientific method:
The scientific method requires modern technology;
The scientific method should lead one to conclusions that are in line with the modern scientific consensus;
The scientific method cannot be used with certain evidence.
Well, I have argued otherwise, but I do not accept any of those three assertions. Perhaps you made a mistake in your reasoning.
Jon writes:
The result of rejecting these (obviously rejectable) consequences is that we must accept that histories, such as the Bible, constitute evidence and that their use in discovering truths about the world qualifies as scientific.
How about a compromise. Those histories constitute evidence - evidence of something, though perhaps not evidence of what those histories assert. But just using them does not qualify as scientific. That would depend on how they are used.
Your major mistake, I think, is that you seem to be identifying science with fact finding whereas you should be identifying it with systematization.

Jesus was a liberal hippie

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Jon, posted 10-29-2010 10:49 AM Jon has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 24 by Jon, posted 10-29-2010 7:38 PM nwr has replied

  
nwr
Member
Posts: 6412
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 5.3


(1)
Message 25 of 177 (589028)
10-29-2010 8:35 PM
Reply to: Message 24 by Jon
10-29-2010 7:38 PM


Re: The Bible and the Scientific Method
Jon writes:
Is proper science about the methodology used and not the source of the inputs?
nwr writes:
It's about both.
Jon writes:
How do you weigh the appropriateness of an input?
It is really the wrong question. Often a scientific theory defines its input data.
To give an example, Ampere's law defines how to measure electrical current. The law, in effect, gives the operating principles for the galvanometers used to measure electrical data. Likewise, Ohm's law defines how to measure resistance, and is one of the operating principles of the modern volt-ohm meter. So the science is defining the inputs to be used.
Back to your other question, where you wanted me to elaborate on systematization; it was the systematic study of electricity and magnetism that led to Ampere's law and Ohm's law, which in turn define the inputs.
You get something similar if you look at Newtonian mechanics. Newton was systematically studying motion and acceleration. His laws, which emerged from that systematic study, actually defined how to measure some of the core properties.
If you want yet another example, much of the data being used in biology today is as a result of the theory of evolution.
"Fact finding" usually refers to attempting to find specific facts, much as detectives do when trying to solve a crime case. Science, with its systematic study, provides ways of getting a wide range of data (i.e. facts), but if it is unable to resolve a particular question of fact, that is not seen as a problem for science. Rather, it is the general systematic study and the resulting broad understanding of the phenomena involved that is the primary interest of science.

Jesus was a liberal hippie

This message is a reply to:
 Message 24 by Jon, posted 10-29-2010 7:38 PM Jon has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 26 by Coyote, posted 10-29-2010 8:52 PM nwr has seen this message but not replied

  
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