Does the bible condemn homosexuality?

I read this in News of the Weird and found it quite amusing. Apparently God not only loves gay people but he's had it up to here with Pat Robertson (much like myself). Now if He'd only do something about that Phelps guy...

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Hurricane Isabel roared through Virginia Beach, Va., in September, inflicting serious property damage, despite public calls for prayer to keep it away by prominent resident Rev. Pat Robertson, whose Christian Broadcasting Network is headquartered there. (In 1998, Robertson condemned the city of Orlando, Fla., for sponsoring a Gay Days festival, and warned that the city could be torn up during the subsequent hurricane season, as God punishes those who promote homosexuality. Instead, the first hurricane of that season (Bonnie) made a direct hit on Virginia Beach.) [The Virginian-Pilot (Norfolk), 9-16-03]

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Couldn't happen to a nicer guy - and probably wouldn't, either.

How does the verse you quote in any way support your statement?"Hate the sin, love the sinner" is sickeningly cliche. I consider it both a falsehood and unscriptural. For starters, the people who say it tend to behave in ways that are functionally indistinguishable from true hatred of a particular group, such as gays. Second, the Bible says unequivocally that God chooses to hate individual people - sometimes even before they did anything wrong, like Esau.

Along those same lines I found it kind of interesting that no one at the time ever brought up the religious significance of the columbia disaster.It was the first shuttle launch with overt religious themes. The crew contained the first Jewish astronaut and a devoutly Xtian Black. Moreover it contained a torah which had made it through the holocaust.Bush and Sharon pumped up this angle (especially on FOX) saying how this showed Judeo-Xtian beliefs were instrumental in further exploration and understanding of space, and in some sense superior to everyone else.Then the columbia goes down in flames (taking the torah with it). If the flight had such religious significance (which they said before the flight) why not afterward?Or was it that there were too many homosexuals involved with the shuttle program?------------------
holmes[This message has been edited by holmes, 10-09-2003]

I have never accused anyone of anything. The last time I read my Bible it told me it was not my place to judge. I was simply stating a fact, that the comment was offensive and unnecessary. Plenty of my friends are not Christians and do not feel the need to make obscene references. Likewise, they are offended when they hear things like that. However i would like to apologize if any Christian at any time has accused you of anything unfounded. It was wrong and I am sorry.

Well, the comment you thought was offensive wasn't directed to you, was it? Well, Dan Carroll did feel that need. He's not a disguisting person, he was simply making fun of the horrible atrocities Christians accuse atheists of being capable of almost every time the subject comes up. If you don't make such accusations then you have nothing to worry about, do you?

I don't really want to jump into an argument that I know nothing about, but I guess I'll state briefly how I feel on the subject. I believe I have read a passage saying God doesn't like Homosexuality, I think it was already stated. My views I guess are a bit different.
If man and man, or woman and woman were meant to be together, why have two seperate genders? Wouldn't we be asexual than? Human bodies weren't made for the same gender to be together, so therefore, my personal opinion is its... a bit wrong.
I do realize the subject is what God's viewpoint is, but I'm sure most Christians would agree that man & man, or woman & woman isn't a good combination.
I was watching tv show a few nights ago, and one of the charactors was gay. It made me upset how others treated him though... almost cried I must admit.
So has it been decided yet why people feel more attracted to the other sex? Is it something in the head, or a personal choice??
Anyways....
I'm not entirely against it; I just strong discourage it.

BarlowGirl writes:

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If man and man, or woman and woman were meant to be together, why have two seperate genders?

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Why not?You seem to be saying that sex is only for reproduction. Considering that the vast majority of all sex acts taken by humans have no hope of ever resulting in conception, this obviously can't be the reason.

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Human bodies weren't made for the same gender to be together

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Says who? You?Gay people don't seem to have any trouble having sex, so your claim is obviously incorrect.

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but I'm sure most Christians would agree that man & man, or woman & woman isn't a good combination.

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But the question is why do they think that.Do they think that because the Bible actually says that or do they think that because they were told that the Bible says that even though it doesn't?

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So has it been decided yet why people feel more attracted to the other sex?

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Does it matter?

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Is it something in the head, or a personal choice??

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All the evidence seems to indicate that it is not a choice but again, does it matter?

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I'm not entirely against it; I just strong discourage it.

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Why do you even care? Do you obsess this much over what people eat? Whether or not they sleep on their sides or back or stomach? If they prefer wallpaper or paint?There is a difference between "I don't like this" and "You shouldn't like this, either."------------------
Rrhain
WWJD? JWRTFM!

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I believe I have read a passage saying God doesn't like Homosexuality, I think it was already stated.

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This is very hotly debated. For example, often in the bible you'll find the word "Qadesh" translated as "homosexual", and yet the femine form "Qadeshah" translated as "prostitute". Clearly the translators are adding their own bias here. The root word is "Qadesh", who was a middle eastern goddess of fertility and sexual pleasure - tending to indicate that this word refers to cult prostitution by men and women.

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My views I guess are a bit different.
If man and man, or woman and woman were meant to be together, why have two seperate genders?

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I assume you're referring specifically to humans, since this isn't always the case in the animal world. Whiptail lizards are only female; another female has to mount a female for her to be able to reproduce, even though it's asexual. Male bedbugs mate by stabbing through the exoskeleton of both females OR males, and releasing sperm into the bloodstream. In females they can fertilize eggs, but in males they end up stored with the other male's sperm, thus leading to the ability to have indirect fertilization.In humans, gender isn't so clear cut. In about one in every 3,000 births, it's hard to say just what gender a child is (and there isn't really an answer usually - they have some properties of both). One in every 1,000 typically have some degree of intersex status. Chromosone checking? Hardly - there are plenty of people who look like, and act like, completely normal men and women, who are of the opposite chromosonal state - not to mention that there's other combinations of chromosomes, such as XXY, XYY, etc. In fact, a 2-BP mutation has been shown in one case to cause the difference between male and female - out of all of the DNA that humans have, a mere 2 bp mutation can change one's gender.What is God's plan for them? If God would mix physical forms, why not mental?

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Human bodies weren't made for the same gender to be together, so therefore, my personal opinion is its... a bit wrong.

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What about bonobos? Dolphins? Any of the many other species observed to practice same-sex sexual activity?Is oral sex "a bit wrong"? Or any of the other types of sex that heterosexual couples often have?

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I was watching tv show a few nights ago, and one of the charactors was gay. It made me upset how others treated him though... almost cried I must admit.

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It's not just TV - this is real life. Read about what happened to gays and lesbians in history, such as Charles Turing (the author of much of modern computer theory), who was arrested for being a homosexual, tried, and sentenced to take female hormones to "repress his sex drive" (a light sentence, because he was so valuable to the British government). His body developed breasts, he fell into a deep depression, and ended up committing suicide.It's not just gays and lebians, either. I know someone who was beaten within an inch of her life by a guy with a crowbar because she is transsexual. These sorts of things are no laughing matter.Oh, just in case you feel like it - here's the highest-ranking official to leave the mormon church over homosexuality, talking about trying to reconcile his faith with his son, who was gay. It's really sad.Page not found | The Nation

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So has it been decided yet why people feel more attracted to the other sex? Is it something in the head, or a personal choice??

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Is a difference in finger lengths "a physical choice"? Because there is a statistical correlation, especially in lesbians, in the length of the index finger. What about handedness? There's a statiscally significant correlation there too. Doesn't that kind of indicate that this just *maybe* isn't something that people just "choose"?------------------
"Illuminant light,
illuminate me."[This message has been edited by Rei, 10-20-2003]

what is the exact bible verse that says to kill homosexuals? i think in deutoronomy or leviticus or something like that..

*Lev 20vs13
And whoever shall lie with a male as with a woman, they have both wrought abomination; let them die the death, they are guilty.Ofcourse, no scholars to date have been able to decipher this mystic message. Freaky.

Actually, Zealot, it doesn't say that, it's in Hebrew, and we've already been discussing translation issues. Also,it is worth mentioning that this line occurs shortly after a discussion of qadesh, which were cult prostitutes (male and female). It doesn't remotely resemble what we know as homosexuality today, unless you believe that gays and lesbians go home and practice idol worship in the evening.------------------
"Illuminant light,
illuminate me."

, - -- ‘, ; , . 13And if a man lie with mankind, as with womankind, both of them have committed abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.Exactly where is translation error ? Can you give me a word for word translation and show me support for your translation online ?cheers[This message has been edited by Zealot, 10-22-2003]PS: I care little for the translation of the word abomination. The penalty is death, so can you focus on the rest of the words in the phrase and show me how it doesn't indicate homosexuality ?[This message has been edited by Zealot, 10-22-2003]

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Exactly where is translation error ?

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My mistake, I was thinking of a different passage that was being discussed earlier (Dt. 23:17). However, again, the "homosexuality" that was familiar at the time to the Hebrew people was that of the cult of the canaanites and other pagan peoples. The fact that this chapter starts off with prohibitions against sacrificing your children to Molech, and ends with a proibition on mediums and psychics, should have clued you in to this.Most Christian theologans view the rules in Leviticus as rules that God placed on them to set them apart from the pagan, idolatrous people in the region that they moved into (it's this reason why xians can freely eat shellfish, wear clothing made from two different kinds of fabric, etc). Would you argue that this command is still binding, but those about shellfish and clothing aren't, and if so, why?------------------
"Illuminant light,
illuminate me."

So many types of homosexuality. Indeed does God give it a specific name as to differentiate it from the 'other' Isrealite type of homosexuality OR does he make it blatantly obvious what the deed is ?Reaching for straws here Rei. Shall we see the majority of the passage ?10 And the man that committeth adultery with another man's wife, even he that committeth adultery with his neighbour's wife, both the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death.11 And the man that lieth with his father's wife--he hath uncovered his father's nakedness--both of them shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.12 And if a man lie with his daughter-in-law, both of them shall surely be put to death; they have wrought corruption; their blood shall be upon them.13 And if a man lie with mankind, as with womankind, both of them have committed abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.14 And if a man take with his wife also her mother, it is wickedness: they shall be burnt with fire, both he and they; that there be no wickedness among you.15 And if a man lie with a beast, he shall surely be put to death; and ye shall slay the beast.Still struggling... Blimey, I see good old fashioned gay sex being discussed, and God punishing it with Death.Shall we close the chapter on whether it was a sin and move onto your next point of attack, levitical law ? 1. Christians can eat anything they choose to eat. As long as its blessed.Mat 15:10 Jesus called the crowd to him and said, "Listen and understand. 11 What goes into a man's mouth does not make him 'unclean,' but what comes out of his mouth, that is what makes him 'unclean.' "16"Are you still so dull?" Jesus asked them. 17"Don't you see that whatever enters the mouth goes into the stomach and then out of the body? 18But the things that come out of the mouth come from the heart, and these make a man 'unclean.' 19 For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false testimony, slander. 20 These are what make a man 'unclean' ; but eating with unwashed hands does not make him 'unclean.' "Hmm sexual immorality... We saw a couple of those in Lev didn't we ?[This message has been edited by Zealot, 10-22-2003]

So, sucking another man's penis doesn't make you unclean. Good to know.