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Author Topic:   Why not here (re: Joe's geomagnetism web page)
Loudmouth
Inactive Member


Message 25 of 44 (63503)
10-30-2003 6:31 PM
Reply to: Message 23 by TrueCreation
10-30-2003 5:21 PM


TrueCreation writes:
I've explained my reasoning for having no problem with invoking some kind of miracle to explain the isotopic data. There isn't a lot to 'construct' with accelerated decay; either it accelerated, or it didn't. Accelerated decay isn't ad hoc, but I presume it was miraculous.
First of all, in order to fit the geologic timeline into a YEC model you have to assume increased isotopic decay ad hoc.
Second, decay rates are as intrinsic as mass, for example. You don't chain yourself to the desk in case the mass of Carbon suddenly changes, do you? What proof do you have that isotopes can change their half lives, because I sure haven't seen anything that would refute uniformity in decay rates. As stated above, decay rates can be verified by many methods (varves, trees, ice samples). I can list more for various other isotopes if you would like.
What you're left with is a miracle. But why would God fool with isotope decay? It makes no sense. Why would he destroy evidence of a young earth when it is not necessary in any way. It's like turning back the odometer in your car just before you total it.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 23 by TrueCreation, posted 10-30-2003 5:21 PM TrueCreation has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 26 by Brad McFall, posted 10-30-2003 6:43 PM Loudmouth has replied
 Message 28 by TrueCreation, posted 10-30-2003 8:42 PM Loudmouth has replied

  
Loudmouth
Inactive Member


Message 41 of 44 (63652)
10-31-2003 12:50 PM
Reply to: Message 26 by Brad McFall
10-30-2003 6:43 PM


Re: not part of main thread drift
this is just a small side point,
Loud, how does one "know" what is "ad hoc" if one accepts a dual model approach to science C or E. I suppose if one used the duality to polarize ones model,tradition,paradigm or pedagogy then what is ad hoc would be clear but I find the most information on c/e comes from looking at BOTH models together. That is why we have c/e webs of links but no c/e school depts as of yet so either I answered my own question or you could say a little better what criteria or means one uses to "discern" what is ad hoc and what is not to be added?
I'll post once in this vein and then maybe we could start a new thread, it would make a good topic perhaps.
I believe that something is ad hoc if there is no evidence to back it up. From the evo side, if evo's claimed that mutation was the driving force for evolution but were unable to demonstrate mutation currently, or at least a mechanism, then it would simply be ad hoc. The fact is, we can observe mutation (and natural selection for that matter) and so evo is on firm footing. Presuming a time line and then coming up with mechanisms that have never been observed, or go against observed phenomenon, to support it seems ad hoc to me.
If you are going to take a "dual theory" stance, by what criteria do you judge evidence by? For me, natural methodology seems to be the most appropriate. If this methodology is ignored, then anything that doesn't fit your theory can be explained as a supernatural phenomenon, what some people call "goddidit". How fair is it, in a scientific or evidenciary position, to handwave away unexplainable observations to supernatural forces? By what criteria do you narrow down the possible supernatural deity in the face of numerous creation accounts in different religions? Before the Germ Theory, disease was thought to be caused by evil spirits. Why doesn't this theory have its place in modern medicine? How do we know that infectious disease used to be caused by evil spirits but is now caused by microorganisms? The "dual theory" stance goes much further than C v E if religious documents (including the Christian Bible) are taken literally.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 26 by Brad McFall, posted 10-30-2003 6:43 PM Brad McFall has not replied

  
Loudmouth
Inactive Member


Message 42 of 44 (63655)
10-31-2003 1:07 PM
Reply to: Message 28 by TrueCreation
10-30-2003 8:42 PM


There are ways to tell if you have turned back the odometer [of a car]. God may have 'fooled with isotopic decay' because it would result in what he wanted, a global catastrophe.
Why is it neccessary to speed up isotopic decay to cause a catastrophe? Completely covering the Earth with water wasn't enough?
Perhaps your model could be fleshed out by answering a few questions.
1. At what point in the flood were isotopes "sped up"?
2. Why do the ages of lunar rocks/meteorites agree with an Old Earth model? Was this effect universal?
3. How were the inhabitants on the Ark shielded from the rapid increase in radiation?
4. When did the flood occur and how do you fit this into the C14 calibration curve produced by varves and other formations?
And maybe you could also make a prediction of what rocks on other planets or moons will date to? Mars perhaps?
If you have any questions for me in return, I would gladly answer them. I am not trying to be one sided in this or trying to make you feel picked on. We have very few YEC's on this board as it is and we actually do like debating with you guys, honestly.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 28 by TrueCreation, posted 10-30-2003 8:42 PM TrueCreation has not replied

  
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