Universal Perfection

Maybe you ask the wrong question, Mike.
I would rather ask:
Is it not true that life seems to be functioning perfectly right exactly here ?Why do I ask this opposite, but quite similar question?
Because 99.999999999999999999% of this universe is not a good place for any life we know. Its 100% deadly.
It does seem that life is fitted to the surroundings, and not the other way around.In fact, if you could change just one of the physical laws a tiny bit, nothing in this universe would look and interact as it does now. All sets of things, like stars, planets, beaches, ocean-waves, mountain-heights, molecules, composition of the atmospheres does look exactly like they do because they are at equilibrium between a set of forces acting upon them.
Changing one physical law a tiny fraction almost certaiable makes earth, or and the rest of the universe completly leathal to us, but it would not be any less functioning as a universe. You could pick any set of laws, and something would come out of it. All you do is change equilibriums between laws. Things like stars, galaxys and planets would all just form at a different scale, and look a bit different.[This message has been edited by TechnoCore, 10-31-2003]

I'm sorry to say so, but you do haven't understod very much at all.
(yes i know i'm mr.besserwisser
Your last sentence says all,I quote you:"If the universe was any different it would not be 'just right' which, as I see it CAN mean Creation , rather than an explosion which comes a bout by chance and somehow accidentally creates a perfect system."Let me me explain why i believe so:
The first part is correct, i.e. sure the the universe could have been created by a god.The second part is not.
You say: somehow a perfect system is accidentally created...What ?
The WHOLE issue here is that THERE IS NO PERFECT SYSTEM.
Let me say it one more time: THERE IS NO PERFECT SYSTEM.
GET IT?
It does not matter how the system looks or works.
If life starts in any system, it is part of that particular system, and can only adapt to THAT SYSTEM. There is no other system.
So in other words: There is no perfect system, since life is a result of the system. The system is not a result of life.This what it all comes down to.[This message has been edited by TechnoCore, 10-31-2003]

I didn't misunderstand you.You wrote this:
" The fact is the universe is perfect FOR life on earth. If it's 99.9 whatever percent inhabitable, that would agree with my thoughts which are , that life on earth is probably the only life in the universe. If the universe was any different it would not be 'just right' which, as I see it CAN mean Creation , rather than an explosion which comes about by chance and somehow accidentally creates a perfect system. "I know you clearly think all this points towards creation.
Too bad you you are not open-minded enough to see that the last part of your arguemnt is invalid:"rather than an explosion which comes about by chance and somehow accidentally creates a perfect system."When you say "somehow creates a perfect system" you are already placing all your beliefs in that the system must be designed for humans as a lifeform!
Don't you see?
Since I dont think humans were intelligently designed, I dont need the universe to be intelligently designed either. We are a result of our surroundings. The surroundings are not a result of us.
It all comes down to that we are perfectly fitted into earth because we live here.If the universe was created in any other way, we would not sit here.
If life started somehow, in that other universe, following other laws, it would have become something else. If you had a soul-mate in that other universe, some strange beeing in that other reallity, he (it?) might think: Damn im lucky that everything works as it does beacuse otherwise how could i exist? It must be created just so for me!
(But hey, you now know it isnt so. He is just one of an infinite number of possible universes that could have been created, with an infinite number of possible lifeforms evolved into it)The universe is not perfected to fit us. We are perfectly fit the universe. Because we slowly evolved into this spot.

All known knowledge in micro-biology is worthless information in an alternate universe, with other laws and matter-constructs. The basic forces that molds life, evolution, is whats important. It works in any system. This is more of an information issue.
Sure if you change some physical constants a tiny bit carbon based lifeforms as we know it become impossible, on exactly this level it exists now.Life is something that can replicate and has a form of awareness (the abillity feel its surroundings at some level). To do so it needs energy. There are a multitude of ways to concieve something that replicates and is not made from carbon.Apart from that there is actually an infinite number of ways matter could have been assembled. And an infinite number of weird laws that could be aplied to it. How can you even start to claim life cant come from that ?

Fair enough, I knew you are a creationist. I just wanted you to understand my viewpoint!You say:
"I also do not think you can get order from some sort of big bang, which I think would make a big mess. Did any bomb you have heard of create order.lol"Err excuse me ? How could you not get order from big bang ?
Order at what scale ? Lets add one law to our universe and see what happes after a big bang mess, shall we ?
Lets add gravity!
What happens is that matter starts to attract matter, forming bigger and bigger lumps. Finally you'll get things of star-size!
Lots of stars are drawn together building galaxies.
Is that order ?
Whats so hard about that?
lol.(Whatever physical laws you choose for your universe, you will wind up with different levels of order at different scales)

Beliving in bat-people on the moon does seem more plausable than beliving in a invisible, all-powerful, non interacting god, that creates beeings beliving in bat-people living on the moon.
Doesen't it?
I just rather skip the god part of it, and keep the bat-people.-quote-
Now why don't you actually support your position - instead of simply stating it - by showing us a system (other than biological life as we know it) that would classify as life, and that arose by undirected, non-biological processes alone?
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Sorry, cant find any such systems here on earth. Guess they must have evolved into something else. Haven't been able to visit any other starsystems lately.The last part of life definition cant be proven.
Since neither you nor I knows what the awareness part of life is, in its essence, and it can't be proven that another lifeform/beeing actually has self-awareness. (It could be simulating)
As for self-replicating enteties, all i need to do is to construct my own universe in a computer. Why dont you take a look at the "game of life"?
To make something logically self-replicating all that is needed are two different logical rules. By combining these in different ways you can construct every other convievable information-construct, like multiplication, a computer game, an artificial intelligence, or a self-replicating system. This selfreplicating system can be infinitly complex. The same can obviously be done with metal and springs, thogh it would be a really slow version. Or atoms of your choice. A self replicating system can be made out of of any sets of atoms. Some sets are just harder to use, but it doesent matter. We have enogh rules to play with.
Of course the starting-conditions for almost all matter-combinations will never be met. Trying to make a self-replicating system of hydrogen might force you to make it in galaxy scale.