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Author Topic:   Was Accuracy the Goal of Biblical Scribes?
ConsequentAtheist
Member (Idle past 6268 days)
Posts: 392
Joined: 05-28-2003


Message 14 of 28 (63793)
11-01-2003 10:33 AM
Reply to: Message 10 by Buzsaw
10-31-2003 8:53 PM


The Dead Sea Scrolls have shown that not much has been changed in the important texts of cannon scripture.
This is a marvelous sentence, with its claim precariously balanced between the vacuous and the vague. What constitutes "not much", and what the hell are "the important texts [as opposed, presumably, to unimportant text] of cannon [canonized?] scripture"?
So, what can, in fact, be asserted. In the following quote, abbreviations employing unavailable characters are replaced with full names within braces:
6. Variants in the Qumran Texts
There are many differences in readings between the individual Qumran texts, or, phrased differently, these texts reflect many variants vis-a-vis {The Masoretic Text}. ... Phrased again differently, the Qumran texts, as well as differing from one another, relate to {The Masoretic Text}, {The Septuagint}, {The Samaritan Pentateuch}, and other texts in a ramified system of agreements and disagreements. ...
The fact that all these fifferent texts were found in the same Qumran caves probably eflects a certain textual reality in the period between the third century BCE and the first century CE. In our reconstruction of the history of the biblical text in that period in pp. 187-197 this situation is described as textual plurality and variety.
- see Textual Criticism of the Hebrew Bible, by Emanuel Tov
Furthermore, by the mid 3rd century BCE, textual transmission had long since entered the preservation stage. Any degree of agreement reflects only the degree of import assigned to various texts, and says absolutely nothing about the process or integrity of composition and early transmission.
[This message has been edited by ConsequentAtheist, 11-01-2003]

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Replies to this message:
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ConsequentAtheist
Member (Idle past 6268 days)
Posts: 392
Joined: 05-28-2003


Message 17 of 28 (63920)
11-02-2003 9:17 AM
Reply to: Message 15 by mendy
11-01-2003 8:54 PM


Re: ON scribal errors
For these reasons you will find that Torah scrolls worldwide are almost identical [i think there are maybe 6 variant letters] in Torah scrolls found anywhere in the world, from the west to the far east. I suggest that this can be extrapolated backwards to biblical times and that the accuracy of the hebrew scrolls is very high.
Given a choice between textual evidence and doctrinal extrapolation, I'll choose the former. The "plurality" addressed by Tov was not a statement of faith, but an obsevation of fact. Live with it!
Better yet, consider reading Fixing God's Torah: The Accuracy of the Hebrew Bible Text in Jewish Law.

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ConsequentAtheist
Member (Idle past 6268 days)
Posts: 392
Joined: 05-28-2003


Message 18 of 28 (63921)
11-02-2003 9:18 AM
Reply to: Message 16 by PaulK
11-02-2003 7:57 AM


Re: ON scribal errors
The whole Masoretic tradition was started to produce an authoritative text, not to prserve one that existed at that time.
Bingo!

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Replies to this message:
 Message 19 by mendy, posted 11-02-2003 1:45 PM ConsequentAtheist has replied

  
ConsequentAtheist
Member (Idle past 6268 days)
Posts: 392
Joined: 05-28-2003


Message 21 of 28 (63993)
11-02-2003 4:32 PM
Reply to: Message 19 by mendy
11-02-2003 1:45 PM


Re: ON scribal errors
So, i am disagreeing with what you all have said. I didnt see any proof from anyone, just assertions
Good grief! Have you ever read anything pertaining to the history and textuual transmission the Torah?
quote:
And after I looked at the books of the Masorah and studied them, I saw that they were utterly confused (mebulbalim be-taklit) and corrupt to the point where there is no house that does not contain a corpse [cf. Ex. 12:30], that is, the verses that the author of the Masoret cited and the great confusion in them.
- Introduction to the Rabbinic Bible (1524-1525), by Jacob ben Hayyim
quote:
... not only did the Torah become like two torot, it was more like an infinite number of torot, because of the many variants that are found in the texts (sefarim),that are in our regions, both new and old ...
- Introduction to Minhat Shai, by Y.S. Norzi

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ConsequentAtheist
Member (Idle past 6268 days)
Posts: 392
Joined: 05-28-2003


Message 23 of 28 (65532)
11-10-2003 6:27 AM
Reply to: Message 22 by Zealot
11-10-2003 6:07 AM



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ConsequentAtheist
Member (Idle past 6268 days)
Posts: 392
Joined: 05-28-2003


Message 28 of 28 (65745)
11-10-2003 11:24 PM
Reply to: Message 27 by Brian
11-10-2003 2:20 PM


I havent read any modern day scholar who thinks that the four gospels arose independently of one another, could you highlight a few?
I think that The Present State Of The Synoptic Problem is worth reading.
Also of interest, this time from the perspective of Lukan priority, is Who Questioned Jesus

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